I never bought a house.
That’s because I never wanted a house.
If you gave me millions of dollars, I’d still rent my shelter. It’s not about money. It’s a lifestyle call.
Yet here I am. Cursed by a house. A house I neither wanted nor bought.
The house in question is Oh’s house.
It’s a beautiful cottage-style home (pictured) in a gated community, located not too far from the center of Chiang Mai, Thailand.
As houses go, it’s a nice one. And I can see how other people, including Oh, would find it appealing to live in such a house.
But I’m not one of those people.
Oh and I had a discussion some time ago, before she moved into my apartment in Chiang Mai, that she’d eventually have to sell the house in order for us to have more options down the road.
Options like traveling. Or even living in different countries for extended periods of time. (I see a near future in which we live in Thailand part time.)
However, we both decided that it would be best to rent the house before she sells it, which gave us an opportunity to try out living together as a couple. If things didn’t work out, Oh still had a house to go back to. I never wanted her to feel trapped.
Unfortunately, partially due to the dynamics of the Thai real estate market, this meant that Oh would have to run a sizable monthly cash flow deficit on the house while it was being rented. No big deal on a temporary basis.
Or so we thought.
Almost simultaneous to Oh moving in with me, Thailand started to become significantly more restrictive with their visa policies. And this restrictiveness has only gotten worse over time, relegating our earlier visa plan for 2020 to the garbage bin.
We then both realized the house had to go if we were to become serious about this relationship.
So I temporarily bounced out to Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia to buy us time on a house sale. After a house sale, Oh and I could go on grand adventures together before settling down.
Fortunately, Oh already had a potential buyer on the hook. A buyer she was very confident about.
The tenants renting her house.
Voila.
Couldn’t be more perfect.
Except it wasn’t perfect.
The aforementioned dynamics of the Thai real estate market are pretty interesting.
One thing about this market is, it’s the complete opposite from the US in terms of supply and demand. Whereas the US is facing what could almost be described as a housing crisis, Thailand has plenty of housing to go around. And they continue to build more. A lot more. Nimbyism doesn’t seem to exist in Thailand. This is advantageous for a renter like me, which is one of the things that drew me here in the first place.
On top of this, Thai people apparently prefer new homes. Shiny, clean, modern, no problems, no potential ghosts. And new houses get preferential terms from banks, requiring much less cash down. Used houses can be nigh impossible to sell because so few people have the cash. I didn’t know about all of this until recently.
The house was new when Oh bought it.
But it’s obviously not new now.
And the tenants weren’t able to come up with the significant amount of cash necessary to purchase it. Making matters worse, they later informed Oh that they’ve decided to move out of the house after the lease ends this summer. They’re not happy about dog noise in the neighborhood.
Because of the house being older and on less favorable lending terms, it will be difficult to secure different buyers. Buyers will be naturally drawn to new houses. The resale market in Thailand is generally very poor. Moreover, Oh may have an empty house altogether pretty soon.
Oh has a house problem.
And since I’m in a relationship with Oh, I now have a house problem. That’s how relationships go. One person’s problems become the other person’s problems. It’s like reverse osmosis. It’s a lot of fun.
I’m just kidding, of course. I love Oh with all my heart. So I’m happy to do what I can to help.
It has put us in a major bind, though.
Our current plan to go on adventures together is not feasible with the house, due both to the sizable monthly cash flow deficit and the nature of needing to be available.
So we’re currently in the midst of seriously exploring other options while the house remains up for sale.
In the end, the biggest objective for both of us is to figure out a way to stay together. And I’ve promised Oh that if she goes all-in on me, I’ll go all-in on her. We have a wonderful life awaiting us, if this house curse can be lifted.
We’ll see what we can do. But our options are very limited right now.
No matter what happens, 2020 is shaping up to be a life-changing year.
When I first met Oh, I knew she had a house. But I didn’t look at it as an issue. I figured a house would be easy to sell, if/when it came to it. After educating myself about the Thai real estate market, I now realize I was wrong.
It’s funny. I always knew a house was a headache. But I never figured the biggest headache of all was going to come from the house I never bought. How ironic!
What do you think? Have an interesting house story? Ever been cursed by a house?
Thanks for reading.
P.S. If you’re interested in achieving financial freedom and retiring early, make sure to check out these fantastic resources that I personally used on my way to becoming financially free at 33!
How long has the house actually been on the market? Is there a yearly cycle to the Thailand market? I know here in the US we have tried to sell our homes and it always seems to be that May-August is the sweet spot. Families have kids, and parents don’t want to pull kids out of school mid-year so the summer time is the time for buying. We have also been creative in the past when a house was in a difficult market and included some money towards closing. Its not ideal since its money out of your pocket, but when compared to a few months more of mortgage payments sometimes it makes sense.
Lastly, regarding your previous renters… you may be able to persuade them to stay renters and still get them to buy the house if you offer a rent-to-own offer. Essentially allowing the principal portion of their payments to be deducted from the purchase price. It would both help them and you.
Rick,
Yeah, it’s really impossible to compare the US and Thai real estate markets. They may as well exist on different planets. Never thought to educate myself on this matter because I knew I was never going to buy a house here (or anywhere else). After learning a lot about it, I’ve come to see just how idiosyncratic it is.
Regarding the renters, they’re definitely moving on. One of them teaches English online and needs a very quiet environment. I’ve been to Oh’s house a number of times. It’s a noisy neighborhood, unfortunately. I don’t foresee extreme difficulty in finding different renters. But I think selling the house will be very, very challenging.
Cheers!
That’s a bummer Jason. The one person I thought would never be shackled to a house. I feel that owning has been good for me financially, but certainly it can be a ball & chain at times.Took me a moment to figure out Nimbyism (Not In My Backyard ) lol.
If Oh’s house is rented out, and you’re in KL, where does she live now? A rent to pay and an insufficient rental income must put her in a bind.
Fred,
Never in a million years thought I’d be bogged down by a house. Funny how life works out sometimes.
Oh is staying with a good friend right now. I don’t think it’ll be super difficult to find another renter. But selling the house will be a major challenge. We’ll see how it goes!
Best regards.
Jason,
it’s the first time i hear of a farang that can get to make his thai gf sell her house.
The 99% of time I heard of farang husband BUYING house for her wife…
I wonder how long you planned to stay in KL and where are you heading in case things are getting stuck
praya,
Oh’s a wonderful woman. And I’m no dummy. 🙂
I’ll be leaving KL in March. That was the plan all along. What’s changed, however, is that we’ll not be able to link up and go off on adventures together like we were planning to do (assuming the house doesn’t sell). I’ll end up going back to Chiang Mai instead to take care of things with Oh in person. Trying to manage an increasingly difficult ordeal from abroad is not ideal for either of us. Had I known it was going to turn out like this, I would have planned things differently.
Best wishes.
Wow, sorry to hear that. I hope Oh finds a buyer. Can she lower the price to make it more attractive?
I never knew that houses are so hard to sell in Chiang Mai. Is it a different story in town? Seems like there aren’t many places up for sale in the city center.
I think you’re right about new houses. I saw quite a few new developments when we were driving around. They were all out of town, though. The new houses seem quite expensive.
Good luck.
Joe,
Yeah, it’s a bummer for sure.
She’s already lowered the price to her limit. She did so at my request, after I learned more about the market and realized how serious the situation is. No traction yet, but we’ll see how it goes.
The poor resale market is pretty much a countrywide thing. That’s because of idiosyncratic dynamics I laid out above. Buyers have a ton of new choices all around Oh’s house, and they’re not much more expensive. I think it’ll be extremely difficult to ever sell the house, unfortunately.
Thanks for the well wishes! 🙂
Best regards.
Home ownership was the biggest financial mistake I made in my life. Losing money in the short sale hurt, but it’s the lack of flexibility that really stressed me out. Renter for life, I will gladly pay higher housing costs for greater freedom
Anonymous,
Totally hear you. Fellow renter for life here. I don’t care about the money, either. It’s a lifestyle call.
Unfortunately, I seem to have picked up this homeownership disease by association. I’m aiming to cure it as soon as possible. 🙂
Cheers.
Is walking away feasible? Recently had a similar situation regarding an inherited abode in West Virginia. Ended up walking away from it because it became a liability instead of an asset.
Anonymous,
Good question. I looked into it already. It doesn’t appear to be feasible. I’d get into the specifics of the situation, but it would move far beyond the scope of a simple comment. Suffice to say, the tabien baan means homeownership, going all the way back through generations, is actually part of the cultural identity. It’s a totally different set of real estate dynamics and rules here compared to the US. May as well exist on different planets, frankly. If Oh tried to walk away from the house, I’m afraid she’d probably have to walk away from Thailand.
Best regards.
> Ever been cursed by a house?
Ugg, yes. It took me two years to sell my house. Why? Because Americans all want brand new houses too! They would rather spend an extra 30+ minutes a day commuting to work, just so they can be in a new neighborhood with new schools for their kids.
My house was in a great location in the downtown area and less than two miles from the university. It was 10 years old, but it was in excellent condition since it was just me living there most of the time (no kids tearing things up).
I ran the numbers once and I figured my 2,500 sq.ft. bachelor pad cost me about 3-4 years of extra work, plus that was two years of sitting around, waiting for it to sell.
Funny thing is, the people that bought my house did so because of the location. They were already living on the outskirts of town and they hated all the construction out there. They said the traffic was absolutely terrible and getting worse by the day since more subdivisions were being developed. They wanted to get a good downtown location so they didn’t have to deal with that mess.
I would get into other house curses (like a sprinkler busting the night before a trip), but I’ll just wrap this up and say: homeownership sucks.
Travis,
Man, sorry to hear of the troubles. It’s nice you’re finally free, though. 🙂
I’m right there with you. I wouldn’t buy a house with SOMEONE ELSE’S money. Don’t want to touch homeownership with a 10-foot pole.
Oh offered me an opportunity to stay in the house almost for free. I still declined. Just don’t want anything to do with it. It’s a non-negotiable lifestyle call for me, much in the same vein as having a job I don’t like. It’s part of my identity.
We’ll see how it goes. I’m doing my best to offer guidance and assistance. But I fear that we have a situation here that will be very tricky to get out of.
Thanks for sharing!
Best wishes.
Dear jason,
Oh man (no pun intended) sorry to hear this. Please forgive me but at the same time it sounds funny the way you wrote this. I hope it allworks out. Since i am hereafter a long time happy new year to you both.
Rishi
Anonymous,
No problem at all. I see the humor and irony in the situation. 🙂
Appreciate the support. It’ll be interesting to see how this shakes out.
Happy 2020 to you and yours!
Best regards.
Jason, what a shame that house is holding you and Oh back like that :/ I wish you the best of luck! Especially because this year I would particularly love you (two) to make it to Tbilisi and hear what you think. Why? Well – just recently I was positively shocked to realize that after making the investments I have planned for 2020 and selling my apartment (yeah, I know, could be tough 🙂 I would in fact be FI in that city! Not at all sure I would go, but a it’s a very interesting choice to have.
I will keep my fingers crossed for you & Oh.
Mika,
Thanks, bud!
It’s definitely a shame. I’m obviously a very patient person. So waiting, say, a year for the house to sell doesn’t particularly bother me. My big concern here is that the house might never sell. That would be a major problem for our relationship moving forward, as it limits our options and makes me more beholden to a regime that is clearly bent on making life difficult for foreigners. As someone who needs freedom and optionality, this won’t work. I’m willing to give it some time and do all I can to assist, though. We’ll see.
Doesn’t look like we’ll be making it to Tbilisi. Frankly, I’m not heartbroken over it. I was interested in seeing Tbilisi in terms of satisfying my curiosity. But my feeling is that the quality of life in Thailand, for my needs, is significantly higher than that in Georgia. That’s why I chose Thailand over Georgia in the first place. However, Georgia does have that amazing tourist visa policy. And that has become an even bigger perk over the last couple years (as Thailand’s visa policies have become more restrictive).
But if you decide to check Tbilisi out for yourself, let me know what you think. 🙂
Best regards.
Oh dear, I have nightmares from my old house. Before starting my FIRE journey I was sucked into the old notion of home ownership equals security. Family and friends convinced me and my partner at the time that we needed to own a house to truly be financially secure and successful. Well, to make a long story short, the amount of money I spent on that house could have funded years of my current expenses. Lesson learned and thankfully I got rid of the house (of course it took me 6 months and countless hours to do it).
I’m sure you guys will sort out this situation, good luck!
BF,
Thanks for sharing!
I hear you across the board. It’s awesome that you were able to move on.
Life isn’t without a sense of humor, it seems. Never bought a house, yet the house I didn’t buy is the one that’s causing me so much grief.
We’ll see how it goes. It’s been a learning experience for sure.
Cheers.
Best of luck with that Jason. That’s frustrating to say in the least.
I have a totally different experience with home ownership. Lots of that is the lifestyle choice.
Mainly, I love fixing something up and enjoying the satisfaction of my handy work.
Secondly, I have a higher level of quality of living space than I could ever get from renting. A yard for the kid and a private park like garden. The yard-work is my workout and is huge source of free food for us.
Best of all, I never have to concern myself with a housing payment ever again. Once it was all paid off, my expenses plummeted. All the costs of repairs and taxes of any rental are already priced in. By owning free and clear, all of my maintenance costs are recoverable.
This has resulted in gaining 290% on the cost of my house, even with taxes and maintenance over 15 years.
I know it is not many peoples’ interest to be burdened by ownership. And also my gains are partially due to location (Seattle)
But after spending $100K on rent and not having anything to show for it, I am in my happy space.
Someday, I may cash out, sell the house, get something much cheaper in a rural place, and have most of the money from the sale left to pocket, travel, and have a home base waiting for me.
Best of luck and hope that thing sells fast to pick up your adventure
Chickenwizard,
Hey, that’s awesome. Sounds like homeownership is perfect for you. Everyone has different lifestyle needs. Personally, I wouldn’t own a house even if I were a billionaire. But less people renting works better for me – reduces demand for the properties I go after. 🙂
Thanks for the well wishes. It’ll be interesting to see how it goes. Definitely gonna be a massive challenge!
Best regards.
Jason,
This is unfortunate for you. Certainly, you have my sympathies. Years ago, when I was a normie like most people, saving 5 or 10% of my pay, I wanted to own a house. I dreamed of sitting on a porch swing with a cold beer, after mowing the lawn in the hot sun.
So, I bought a house with front and back yards, and a porch swing. I lived out my dream. Then, I had an epiphany: I needed better dreams!
I eventually had to move for work, and sold the house. But years later, I went through the same thing – bought a second house. Let me tell you, the bloom was off the yardwork rose by then. Plus, I was further north so I had to shovel snow too. Again, I had to move for work and sell the house.
Call me a slow learner if you like, but I am now in the No House! camp. Renting downtown in my new city blows the roof off in the “quality of life” department.
Good luck to you and Oh. I will keep a good thought for you, to have everything work out for the best.
DL,
“I lived out my dream. Then, I had an epiphany: I needed better dreams!”
Haha. That’s too funny right there. I love it. 🙂
I’m a slow learner, too. You’re not alone. I might have figured out the homeownership thing pretty quickly, but there were many other things I had to have beaten into my thick skull.
Appreciate the support. Oh and I are willing to roll the dice on each other. She’s a very high-quality person. I’m really the luckier one.
Best wishes.
Hey Jason,
I wish you and Oh all the best in resolving the housing issue. Having housing hold you back is never a fun situation. I’m sure it’ll all work itself out sooner rather than later!
-DGX Capital
DGX,
Thanks so much. We’ll need all the well wishes we can get. 🙂
Best regards.
I’m one of those people who believes that when the motive is love, that just the right solution will present itself. I’ve seen over and over in my life that internally and consistently listening, trusting, and being open to all manner of good inevitably results in blessing. It may not be as immediate as we sometimes want, but at least in my experience, it has always come. Sometimes the path has led to events I would never have previously believed would make me happy, but I’m grateful to have learned that happiness is much broader when I don’t stand in the way. In following you/your writings for the past 6 years, it seems to me you are open-minded, patient, and embrace change a lot more easily than most. And it’s so clear that you and Oh love each other. So even if the solution to this situation hasn’t yet revealed itself, I’m confident that by cherishing the certainty of continued goodness, that your needs will be met, individually and collectively.
Suzanne,
Thank you. Really appreciate the thoughtful and kind message. 🙂
I agree with you. There’s something to the idea of things “manifesting” in your life. When you believe in something, you naturally end up acting in a way that brings that something into your life. When you’re really ready for that something, it has a way of coming to you.
The solution to the relationship and us being back together again has honestly already presented itself. And it continues to present itself more aggressively as other options shut down. But I was trying to find a temporary “hack” around that solution in order to maintain a certain amount of optionality and also give us a chance to have some adventure. The house situation has kind of put the kibosh on that, so it looks like it’s back to the main solution. I have a feeling that the house sale will simply require plenty of time and patience, which we both have.
Thanks again!
Best regards.
Reminder, selling/waiting/renting – it’s all just an inconvenience (albeit a major one). Finding someone that you want to have a relationship with – that’s the difficult one. Best wishes on the house!
Kay,
Agreed 100%. 🙂
Appreciate the well wishes. We’ll need it!
Cheers.
Looks like the Thai plan to attract more short term Chinese tourist s might be on hold.
Could it be worth another shot to go back and try for a visa now?
HW,
I haven’t heard anything about Thailand lightening up on the visa situation. And I’ve been following it closely.
However, I might have no choice but to give it another shot since the current plan of selling the house and traveling isn’t as viable as I was led to believe.
Best wishes.
Like “Chickenwizard” above, I’m going to concur that an intelligently planned real estate purchase can be a positive move. I think too many people buy based on the wrong reasoning and overpay in hot markets or make other mistakes. They make choices based on emotions or nostalgia. You need to treat your home purchase in the same way you would research your investments. Do your homework, have a long term plan, then execute it. Sure its not for everyone. But some may say the same about REIT’s.
Paul,
It’s simply a lifestyle call, in my view. Residential real estate has averaged something around a 0% real return in the US over the last 100 or so years. But you also can’t live in your stocks. So one can look at the financials in a variety of ways. I think the biggest determiner of what you should do depends on what kind of lifestyle you want. I wouldn’t live in a owned home for free – as basically evidenced by the fact that I turned Oh’s generous offer down. Even if I had billions of dollars, I wouldn’t buy a house. Have absolutely zero desire for it.
Cheers.
Jason, thanks for your sharing and getting out of KL successfully.
Regarding the house issue, what about marrying O in Chain Man, and living in the house for part of the year and traveling for the remainder? I trust as her husband, you would have more opportunities to live in Thailand. I susopect you have already thought of this, but was curious. Good luck in creating the answer to this quandary.
Sorry for the above typos. My bad!
David,
Marriage is one of our options. I discussed that here:
https://www.mrfreeat33.com/thailand-is-kicking-me-out-heres-what-were-doing-now/
However, marriage wouldn’t have anything to do with the house. I’ve been explicitly clear on why I wouldn’t want to live in the house. It’s not a lifestyle I’d ever want. Oh offered for me to live there almost for free. I declined. I noted that in earlier comments, I believe.
Cheers.
Damn Jason, tied down and burdened by a house you don’t own? What’s next? Getting chewed out by a boss–or getting fired–from a job you don’t have?
Just kidding. I’m sure everything will work out for you and Oh. It’s truly a shame that Thai government policies have to get between the two of you. I’m sure they have good reasons for restricting their visa policies–which you’ve talked about and laid out in an earlier article–but I tend to be less sympathetic to the needs of governments as I am to the needs of people.
Sincerely,
ARB–Angry Retail Banker
ARB,
The burdens of a second-degree house. Who knew?! 😂
I really did my best to “hack” around the tightening visa policies in Thailand, but it just won’t work with the house. That’s okay. Everything happens for a reason, I suppose. We’ve figured out a new way forward, which I’m excited about. But I do hope this house doesn’t end up being impossible to unload. We’ll do our best with it.
Cheers.