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Thailand Alternatives: Three Southeast Asian Cities For Early Retirement

August 27, 2019 by Jason Fieber 29 Comments

I have to leave Thailand?!

No, not really.

But let’s imagine that scenario for a moment.

After all, I’m nothing more than a grateful guest of this amazing country.

If a situation of some kind (e.g., continued tightening of visa policies, upheaval, etc.) were to come to pass, it’s not totally unimaginable that I’d have no choice but to move somewhere else. This is highly unlikely, but it’s not outside the realm of possibility.

Beyond that, it’s always possible that I feel ready and excited at some point to live somewhere else.

I absolutely love living in Thailand. My early retirement lifestyle here is a dream come true.

Moving abroad and taking advantage of geographic arbitrage is, in my opinion, almost a necessity for unlocking the full potential of early retirement. I lay that out in my most recent best-selling book, 5 Steps To Retire In 5 Years.

I’ve been living in Chiang Mai for two years now. And I hope I can remain a grateful guest of Thailand for many years to come.

Just as well, though, I could easily see loving life and enjoying my lifestyle in a handful of other locations. I think my lifestyle in Thailand could be approximated in a number other places throughout Southeast Asia.

Moreover, in the future, I could potentially end up rotating between a stable of 2-3 different cities for the sake of variety and taking advantage of the different pros/cons.

I thought it would be interesting and worthwhile to share some of these ideas with you readers.

More importantly, I wanted to break down some alternatives for any readers out there who want to move abroad but can’t or don’t want to live in Thailand.

Maybe you want to leave wherever you’re at, but Thailand doesn’t appeal to you. That’s OK. It’s a big world out there.

So let’s explore some alternative ideas for long-term living here in SE Asia (my preferred region of the world).

These are SE Asian cities that, if I had to leave Thailand tomorrow, I could easily move to and live in. And I see all of them as viable alternatives for aspiring SE Asian expats out there.

Every city listed is quite large. All else equal, I generally prefer to live in bigger cities over smaller cities – up to a point. In my view, it seems that cities with populations of ~600,000 to ~2 million people strike a balance. You get the amenities and urban vibrancy that a certain critical mass offers, without the problems that mega cities tend to bring about.

However, Asian countries often have massive primate cities. Bangkok is perhaps the best example of that. Thus, the cities I’m presenting run larger than I would ordinarily favor.

I’m basing these locations on the following criteria:

  • Low COL/high value
  • Friendly visa policies
  • Friendly tax policies
  • Variety of delicious food
  • Year-round warm weather
  • Friendly/fun populace
  • Laid-back culture/enjoyable ambiance
  • Ease of meeting people for relationships
  • General cultural preferences
  • Prevalent urbanity in the large/capital cities
  • Walkability and access to robust public transit
  • A good level of infrastructure, broad development, and amenities
  • Quality healthcare
  • Personal safety
  • Access to world-class beaches would be a plus, but it’s not necessary

If I were to leave Thailand for any reason, these are my top three destinations.

Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam

If you want something a lot like Thailand, head to Vietnam.

There are some key differences as they pertain to government, language, and history, but the topography and broader way of life are strikingly similar between these two Buddhist countries.

I think of HCMC/Saigon as quite alike to Bangkok in a lot of ways (including very close population numbers), except it’s less developed. It’s also, from what I can see, cheaper. I wouldn’t necessarily say it’s a better value, but it does seem like the general level of prices – from housing to food – is lower than what you’d see in Bangkok.

In my opinion, living in Vietnam is like taking a time machine and going back a few years relative to Thailand. When I was in HCMC in early 2019, I felt like it was a more old-school and authentic Asian experience than the more developed and slightly Westernized Bangkok.

This is because of the tourism industry’s impact on Thailand. Just my take on it. Bangkok is routinely the most visited city in the world, so this shouldn’t be a surprise. One city isn’t better than the other, but there are some differences there to be aware of.

I prefer to live in Thailand, overall. But I definitely wouldn’t be heartbroken if I had to live in Vietnam.

Vietnamese people are friendly, the local food is OK, Western food is actually better than what I’ve had in Thailand (certainly due to the French influence), the weather is obviously warm, the city is developed well enough (although notably lacking robust public transit), Vietnam is very safe in general (with a much lower homicide rate than that of both the US and Thailand), and HCMC offers enough urbanity and amenities to keep anyone busy.

The visa situation is preferable. They offer a one-year business visa to Americans like myself. This is a pretty sweet deal.

Plus, Vietnam has some stunning beaches, such as My Khe Beach up in Da Nang. The cool thing about Vietnam is that a lot of their best beaches are easier to access because they’re on the mainland. Thailand’s best beaches are almost always on islands.

I don’t have any personal experience with the healthcare system. However, everything I’ve read indicates that it’s not an issue. Perhaps not up to Thailand’s standard, but fine enough.

Also, the HCMC airport was pleasant and efficient enough to imagine that traveling (both domestically and internationally) is a breeze.

While they don’t have robust public transportation in HCMC, I will say that Grab was super easy to use and extremely cheap. The cars are everywhere. And traffic isn’t as congested as it is in Bangkok. One doesn’t get too sad over the lack of a train system when you can just hire a private car to go across town for a dollar. And I did take a local bus from the airport to District 1 (the central urban district) in HCMC. The bus was modern and clean, with both A/C and wifi. It cost me less than $1 to to travel the 45-minute trek.

One major downside to Vietnam is the residence-based taxation. So if you live there full time and earn significant income from abroad, that could be a sticking point.

Oh, I’ll also quickly say that one thing I didn’t like when I visited HCMC was the way motorbikes storm the sidewalks en masse and ride at high rates of speed. As someone who walks a lot, I didn’t feel nearly as safe or comfortable walking around in Vietnam as I’ve felt here in Thailand. I see motorbikes on sidewalks very occasionally here, but it’s another level altogether in Vietnam.

That said, traffic is less congested compared to BKK because motorbikes are used heavily and take up less room than cars. Related to this point, horns are used gratuitously. Cars and motorbikes practically communicate with one another in one long horn noise. It’s honestly obnoxious.

Due to the difference in tourism, Bangkok absolutely annihilates HCMC on shopping and nightlife. Depends on how important that is to you. Related to this, I noticed a much greater language barrier in HCMC, likely because Thais have had to hone their English for years in order to cater to foreigners.

Lastly, on a personal note, I didn’t care for the coffee there. Vietnamese coffee is much stronger and more robust than the coffee here in Thailand. As someone who’s in a coffee shop pretty much every day, I was a little sad about that. Then again, they have some Western chains, so this could be overcome.

Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia

This might be my favorite of the three.

The capital city of Malaysia, KL surprisingly flies way under the radar.

If going to HCMC would be like going backward in time relative to BKK, going to KL would be like going forward in time.

The level and quality of development in KL is extremely high. I’ve heard it referred to as a “poor man’s Singapore” more than once. The broader level of infrastructure, development, and quality of life are very high, yet the cost of living is very low (particularly compared to Singapore). The COL seems roughly on par with Bangkok.

Notably, the HDI – ranked #57 – of Malaysia is substantially higher than that of either Thailand (#83) or Vietnam (#116).

In some ways, I can even see how one’s quality of life in Malaysia might be higher than that of my chosen home of Thailand. Depends on what you value.

I think of living in KL as a slightly less Asian experience than that of BKK, so this would be a great place to go if you’re looking for something more thoroughly Western. English, for example, is far more prevalent in KL than BKK.

KL, from what I can see, is also an order of magnitude less intense than Bangkok, which sorta jibes with the difference in population (1.8 million for KL versus 8.3 million for BKK). Indeed, KL is the smallest city on this list. As such, I wouldn’t be surprised if day-to-day life is the most enjoyable here.

Now, Malaysia has a very different culture than that of Thailand. Thailand is largely Buddhist, while Malaysia is largely Muslim. Which one would be better to be around comes down to a personal preference. That said, KL itself is fairly multicultural and diverse across religions, ethnicities, etc. That in and of itself could be an issue, however, as I’ve read numerous reports of how these different cultures and religions present tension. Thailand is rather peaceful, perhaps owing to its homogeneity.

The people seem relatively friendly, the weather is very warm, the variety and quality of local food is great, the COL is low, the QOL is high, the development is up there with (or better than) any major American city, the urban parks (such as KLCC Park) are beautiful, the entertainment options are plentiful, public transportation is robust, and personal safety is excellent.

Malaysia isn’t known for its beaches. But there are options, such as the Perhentian Islands. Moreover, the entire region is so full of amazing beaches, it’s basically moot.

One thing that’s idiosyncratic about KL is the fact that alcohol is quite expensive (relative to other SE Asian locations). I don’t often drink, so this isn’t an issue for me personally.

Also interesting is the climate. Most SE Asian cities have a similar climate. But Kuala Lumpur gets a lot of rain – I’d argue too much rain – particularly during the winter monsoon season. It averages just over 100 inches per year. The city sees 223 days of rain, on average, in a year. Makes Bangkok look dry by comparison. The best/driest time of year is actually in the summer.

The visa situation in Malaysia is certainly more advantageous than what’s going on in Thailand. You get 90 days on arrival (for Americans), and there doesn’t appear to be currently a limit on how many of these visas you can get in a single year. That could, and likely will, change in the near future. But they have the MM2H visa for long-term stays.

By contrast, it’s getting more and more difficult for foreigners to live in Thailand year-round, especially for those trying to effectively live here on tourist visas. The days of “border runs” are gone. I’ve been reading reports of Westerners with tourist visas validly issued from embassies and consulates actually getting denied at airport entries. Even the top-rung visas, like the “O-A”, have become more difficult to ascertain and maintain. It’s becoming pretty clear that the Elite Visa is the best way to stay in Thailand long term, chiefly for those under 50 years old.

Also, it’s notable that Malaysia features a territorial tax system. This is highly beneficial if you earn a lot of money from abroad, don’t have a local job, and want to minimize your tax burden. It’s an easier system than what exists in Thailand, where you have to avoid remitting money in the same year it was earned.

I should also quickly mention that Kuala Lumpur’s KLIA is well-connected and is the main hub for AirAsia, the region’s low-cost carrier. So traveling in/out of KL should be super cheap. However, that’s offset a bit by the fact that KLIA is far from the city, making it time consuming and expensive to get to/from the airport.

The connected nature of the city might lend itself to being so highly visited. It was the seventh-most visited city in the world in 2018. That put it just behind NYC, but ahead of Tokyo.

Manila, Philippines

A bit of a wildcard.

I’m actually speaking of Metro Manila here.

Metro Manila is an area of contrasts.

Going to HCMC is taking a step back in time relative to BKK, while going to KL is taking a step forward. But going to Metro Manila is taking both, simultaneously.

That’s because you have amazing urban enclaves like Makati and Bonifacio Global City (both of which are actually separate from the city of Manila itself) juxtaposed against large swaths of abject poverty across much of the Metro Manila area (which is massive). Metro Manila’s population is over 12 million, and many of those people live in very poor environments.

The country is coming along, though, and the spirit of the Filipinos is awesome.

Speaking of which, everything I hear about Filipinos is impressive. Their attitude, work ethic, and optimism. It’s infectious. This is probably the only country on the list where I’d find friendlier interactions than that of what I experience here in Thailand, which is already off the charts. I’d almost want to stay in the Philippines just because of how sweet the people are. The country seems really fun. Very sanuk-like. This goes a long way for me.

The HDI for the Philippines is similar to that of Vietnam. However, as I just noted, I think Vietnam’s level of development is more evenly spread/flattened out, whereas there’s the more extreme juxtaposition of development and money in the Philippines. I don’t necessarily see that as an issue for an expat, but it might limit one’s living/exploring options to specific areas.

The visa situation is the best on the list. One can stay for three years in the Philippines on a tourist visa (repeatedly renewing it) without leaving the country, which is almost unheard of. There’s also the SRRV option. The SRRV is a retirement scheme available to people as young as 35. Finally, a country that understands early retirement!

And they have a territorial tax system.

English is widely spoken and understood. The Philippines is regularly ranked among the largest English-speaking countries in the world, which is why they have so many call centers based there.

They have warm weather, world-class beaches (some of the best in the world, really), intense urbanity in Manila, thousands of islands to explore, a ton of Western food (because of the American influence), and legendary hospitality. The COL is low compared to the West, but it’s the most expensive city on this list for my lifestyle (relegating it to the worst value, relatively speaking). There’s also the dating scene, which is renowned. If you’re a single guy, it’s one of the best places on the planet.

On the flip side, the Philippines is not as safe as the other countries on this list. Beyond the worries about crime, the Philippines gets regularly blasted by tropical cyclones. One thing I like about Thailand is the lack of natural disasters. It would thus be wise to avoid the Philippines during August and September.

One strange thing about Manila is the apartment situation. They’re relatively expensive. And they usually require long leases and hefty deposits. I had my apartment in Chiang Mai selected, paid for, and moved into about 20 minutes after setting foot in the lobby. No long-term lease or big deposit. I could do the same thing in Bangkok. Setting up an awesome apartment in Thailand is a breeze compared to the Philippines. The Philippines seems to operate a lot like the United States in this regard, unfortunately.

I’ve also heard mixed reviews on the healthcare, although I’m still quite young and healthy.

In addition, I don’t think the Filipino food would offer nearly the level of enjoyment of what I’d get in Vietnam or Malaysia, let alone in Thailand. That’s offset somewhat by the preponderance of Western food/chains, but this does negate one of the biggest advantages of geographic arbitrage. It’s probably unfair that the Philippines gets a bad rap for food, as they’re located in a region with some of the best cuisines in the world.

There’s also the dearth of robust public transportation. This is a huge bummer. Metro Manila’s traffic is legendary. It’s some of the worst in the world. That means Grab cars. And long waits. And a lot of time in traffic when a car finally does arrive. If it’s raining heavily, this would be a big problem.

I’ve also heard from firsthand reports that Wi-Fi and mobile data can be horrendously unreliable.

And the city’s airport is widely regarded as being a major headache to deal with. This is exacerbated by the fact that air travel is more necessary in the Philippines than the other countries I’m talking about today because it’s a collection of islands. One of the country’s biggest selling points (the fact that the Philippines is an archipelago comprised of over 7,000 islands) is actually one of its biggest weaknesses. Transportation, in general, is not this country’s strong suit. This is due to a broader issue with relatively poor infrastructure in general.

One interesting aspect about the Philippines is the fact that it’s mainly a Christian nation. The large number of churches (instead of temples) kind of stands out here in SE Asia. The Philippines has had a lot of influence from both America and Spain, for better or worse.

Lastly, the Philippines is quite far from the mainland SE Asian countries. As far as major SE Asian cities go, Manila is about as south and east as it gets. This means longer trips to get around the surrounding region.

Conclusion

This was largely a hypothetical exercise, but I think it’s valuable to always have back-up options. I also want to note it was a personal exercise – these are cities that appeal to me, based on my preferences and priorities.

Whereas a lot of people might not even have a Plan B, I have a Plan Z. I try to anticipate every possible outcome in life, then have a dynamic spectrum of options to fall back on. Indeed, I considered all of these places before I ultimately picked Thailand, so they were automatically put on an auxiliary list if things didn’t work out here.

If I had to (or wanted to) leave Thailand for any reason, I’d probably set up shop (either temporarily or permanently) in one of these cities. One of the amazing things about financial freedom is that it also confers geographic freedom. Financial independence is also location independence. Having that flexibility is phenomenal.

In fact, I see myself possibly living a more mobile life in the future.

My “home” could very well be in 2-3 different cities. It might be most beneficial and interesting to have a base (or two) in SE Asia, along with a summer retreat in an Eastern European city (such as Budapest or Prague).

Six months in BKK, three months in KL, and three months in Budapest doesn’t sound too shabby.

This would provide one with great variety in life, while at the same time avoiding a lot of issues with living in one SE Asian city full time (weather, visas, etc.). But I absolutely despise flying, so we’ll see about this.

At any rate, I thought it was a lot of fun to consider alternative choices. Before I decided on Thailand, I looked strongly at all of these places (and many others). I wanted to find the most advantageous place in the whole world to live my life. Thailand was my choice. It’s a choice I don’t regret for a second. But I’m confident that life would be pretty good in these cities, too.

I have a real passion for researching different places around the world. And I wanted to share some of that research with you readers, which I hope provided some value and perspective regarding some of the other options in SE Asia.

Anyone out there who is interested in retiring in SE Asia, but does not fancy Thailand, may want to take a close look at these other options.

What do you think? Ever live in any of these cities? Any personal experiences to share? If you were to retire in SE Asia, what are some of your top choices?

Thanks for reading.

P.S. If you’d like to become financially independent (and location independent) at a very early age, check out some fantastic resources that I personally used on my way to becoming financially free at 33!

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Filed Under: Dividend Expat

About Jason Fieber

Jason FieberΒ became financially free at 33 years old by using dividend growth investing to his advantage. Jason hasΒ authored two best-selling books:Β The Dividend Mantra WayΒ andΒ 5 Steps To Retire In 5 YearsΒ (alsoΒ available in paperback).

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Jason recommendsΒ Personal CapitalΒ for portfolio management,Β MintΒ for budgeting,Β SchwabΒ for the brokerage account, andΒ Morningstar, Daily Trade Alert, andΒ Motley FoolΒ for stock ideas. This blog is hosted byΒ Bluehost. If you'd like to start your own blog, Jason offersΒ free coachingΒ when you use ourΒ Bluehost affiliate link.

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Jason's writing and/or story has been featured across international media likeΒ USA Today,Β Business Insider, and CNBC.

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Reader Interactions

Comments

  1. Oliver says

    August 27, 2019 at 4:35 am

    Hi Jason,

    I think this is a necessary article for people living in Thailand. There are many discussions at the moment around visa for long staying people. Thailand is getting more strict and the next step is that you are forced to have a health insurance coverage, which should be also a future question for you. They also force the people to deposit a higher amount on a Thailand bank and/or have a regular income to extend visa. This is too much for some people and they are leaving Thailand. So they need alternatives.

    Regarding the income I donΒ΄t think you will run into big problems, but it could be that you have to pay for a long term visa a decent amount of money. So they are tending to get stricter in the future. May be you have heard about the Thailand development programme 4.0. It is obvious, that they want to develop in a more economic way and I think, the Chinese people will get much more influence as they have today. So no room for retirees who donΒ΄t have enough money.

    On the other side, if you are free to chose new locations it is good to think about alternatives to get new experiences. The more income you have per month, the more possibilities are available.

    From your 3 suggested cities Kuala Lumpur was surprising good in my opinion. OK, I really donΒ΄t like muslim ruled countries too much, but if you have this not 100% homogenious it could work better. Most of these countries I have visited in the past was nothing for me because of the many strange restrictions you have and there are quite a lot of things which are the opposite what I like. Thats the reason why alcohol is so expensive there. But if you like it, you still can buy a beer or whatever you want. I was in some countries where this was not possible or you got it only on very special places. But I donΒ΄t know how strict Malaysia is. I assume not that strict, I havenΒ΄t heard anything negative about it.

    As European you have some good possibilities in Europe with Spain, Portugal, Albania, Hungary, Romania and Bulgaria. From my side IΒ΄m thinking of Greece a bit. ItΒ΄s not that cheap, but cheaper than Germany and I like the people there a lot and also the country. May be this is an option for the future, but in winter itΒ΄s better to be somewhere else. But this can be a possibility to use these months (December – February) to travel around. There are so many possibilities.

    Regards Oliver

    Reply
    • Jason Fieber says

      August 27, 2019 at 6:10 am

      Oliver,

      The only constant in this life is change. So it always behooves one to stay abreast of anything that could impact the advantageousness of any situation they’re in, particularly as a foreigner living abroad. And it’s always a good idea to have multiple contingency plans. Immigration apparatuses around the world are changing and tightening, despite this focus on America as if that’s the only country aiming to keep their borders under control. I can tell you, Thailand takes their borders very seriously.

      Kuala Lumpur/Malaysia is very interesting. I considered all of these options before I ultimately settled on Thailand. KL offers a very high QOL at a low COL. It’s definitely worthy of a good look from anyone looking to move to this part of the world.

      Europeans have an advantage over Americans as it pertains to living in Europe, although I personally don’t see many attractive year-round options there due to the weather (and a host of other issues). Like I noted in the article, though, spending spring/summer in, say, Prague wouldn’t be too shabby. πŸ™‚

      Thanks for dropping by!

      Best regards.

      Reply
  2. Steve@valueinvestingforaliving says

    August 27, 2019 at 7:48 am

    Good topic to post about Jason. We don’t really know for sure how certain we can be about future trends in visa policies. Or future tax policies, political stability, general safety of cities. Or places simply evolve and our tastes may change.

    I know for example those that have lived in Chiang Mai for a long time talk about the traffic getting a lot worse. Wouldn’t be an issue for you though as a β€œtypical” day is probably just walking where you want to go. Good to keep some alternative places in mind though..

    It is part of the reason I spend my year across a few cities.

    As someone who has spent quite a bit of time in HCMC and KL (I haven’t been to the Philippines), I think you have covered it well.

    I would perhaps add though that my personal experience when I have stayed in HCMC for months in a row, is that it can get a bit hectic for me. Agree about your comments with the motorbikes buzzing around you. It can get a bit tiring when you just want to have a relaxing walk somewhere. Perhaps the answer is to make the base in Da Nang.

    On coffee I love the strong coffee, so that’s a tick for me fortunately :).

    Reply
    • Jason Fieber says

      August 27, 2019 at 8:07 am

      Steve,

      Definitely. Things are always changing. You evolve or die. I’m the kind of person that looks forward to change. It’s an opportunity to adapt and grow. Others fear change, much to their detriment.

      Saigon is very hectic. That’s a good word for it. I don’t know if I’d ever really feel comfortable there with that kind of pace and energy. It’s a bit much. Even BKK is right at the top of what I can handle as far as intensity goes.

      I’m going to visit KL in January, which I’m excited about. I’ve only been through on a visa run, but this time I’m going to actually spend some time there and explore. Should be fun.

      Thanks for adding your thoughts!

      Best wishes.

      Reply
  3. retirebyforty says

    August 27, 2019 at 11:12 am

    I’d love to live in those cities for a few months. We’ll visit Hanoi for a few days on the way back from Thailand. It should be a lot of fun. I enjoy Vietnamese food so I’m really looking forward to it.
    KL and Manila sound good too. I didn’t know Manila is so busy. The apartment situation doesn’t sound good. Do they have something like AirBnb? I guess that would be more expensive.

    Reply
    • Jason Fieber says

      August 27, 2019 at 11:18 am

      Joe,

      Hanoi seems pretty interesting, too. I’d prefer Saigon for a variety of reasons, but Vietnam has plenty of options for exploration. πŸ™‚

      Manila is just a poor value, relatively speaking, across the board. But this is especially true for accommodation, which usually ends up being one’s biggest cost. Thailand is simply much, much cheaper for quality accommodation, be it temporary or more long-term in nature. Add in the rigmarole that they have down there, and Thailand is obviously a win in this department. But Manila wins out in other areas. So it just depends on what you prioritize and value.

      Thanks for stopping in!

      Best regards.

      Reply
  4. Dividend Ambassador says

    August 27, 2019 at 11:56 am

    Jason, Warsaw is also quite nice and is crazy cheap compared to the rest of Europe in my experience.

    Reply
    • Jason Fieber says

      August 27, 2019 at 12:12 pm

      DA,

      Warsaw is quite cheap. I’d personally prefer Prague, Budapest, and a number of other European cities over Warsaw for the European spring/summer option, but I don’t think Warsaw is a bad option at all. πŸ™‚

      Cheers!

      Reply
  5. HeadedWest says

    August 27, 2019 at 2:44 pm

    Thanks for posting this. My wife and I are probably States-bound for the next 15 years or so while we raise our two kids, but we’ve been thinking about SE Asia and some of the less expensive places in Europe for a retirement destination. Its nice to get your perspective on what it would be like to live in these places since you’ve already walked the walk, so to speak.

    And, although we should have plenty of investments to live on (we already do right now) its nice to know that this lifestyle could probably be funded with Social Security!

    Keep up the great work with the blog!

    Reply
    • Jason Fieber says

      August 27, 2019 at 2:49 pm

      HW,

      Glad you found some value in this one. πŸ™‚

      Thailand is great. But it’s a big world out there. I get occasional emails from people who can’t or don’t want to come to Thailand, for whatever reason(s). But they’ll ask me about other options in the area. Thought it would be worthwhile to share the research I’ve compiled.

      Sticking in the US isn’t a bad way to go, either. Plenty of fine places over there to enjoy.

      Best regards!

      Reply
      • HeadedWest says

        August 27, 2019 at 3:37 pm

        Indeed. We’re in super expensive Seattle, but we are considering moving to somewhat-more-affordable Chicago to be closer to family for their childhood. Bundle up!

        Reply
  6. RootofGood says

    August 27, 2019 at 2:48 pm

    Just got back from 8 weeks in SE Asia, with a week or two each in HCM, Bangkok, Chiang Mai, and Chiang Rai plus a couple places in Cambodia. Chiang Mai or Chiang Rai were definitely the best early retirement locations out of those places. HCM might be third choice but the food was kind of crappy vs Thailand in general. Costs definitely lower – more in line with Chiang Mai than Bangkok with some stuff cheaper (but often lower quality). HCM is just too busy for my tastes though. You found the sweet spot in northern Thailand I’d say!

    We also visited Can Tho in the delta region. Much quieter pace of life than HCM and they still have western conveniences (nice grocery store/mall, western food, etc). Just less traffic!

    Reply
    • Jason Fieber says

      August 27, 2019 at 2:58 pm

      Justin,

      Thanks for the additional perspective!

      Yeah, I think you’re right. There’s this “sweet spot” here that’s pretty unique and hard to find anywhere else. I spent a lot of time looking for that one place where I thought I could achieve maximum QOL at the lowest COL. This was the best I could come up with. So far, so good. πŸ™‚

      Totally hear you on HCMC. I agree on the food, the costs, and the business. I much prefer living here, but I think this lifestyle could be roughly approximated over there. Depends on personal preferences to a degree.

      Cheers!

      Reply
  7. Financial Nordic says

    August 27, 2019 at 3:32 pm

    Thanks, Great post!

    There is so much to see in SE asia.. It is definitely very attractive place for Fire-people. It would be nice to ”retire” there 😎

    – Financial Nordic

    Reply
    • Jason Fieber says

      August 28, 2019 at 1:35 am

      FN,

      Absolutely. Plenty of incredible options out here. I’m loving it! πŸ™‚

      Best regards.

      Reply
  8. Daniel Riegler says

    August 28, 2019 at 6:56 am

    Pretty funny, just booked flights from CM to HCMC to KL a few days ago…I would also recommend Bali dir living 2-3 months of the year.
    Best wishes✌️

    Reply
    • Jason Fieber says

      August 28, 2019 at 7:12 am

      Daniel,

      Awesome. Hope you enjoy the trip! πŸ™‚

      Cheers.

      Reply
  9. investortrip says

    August 28, 2019 at 8:53 pm

    Timely article. I’m currently in the Philippines and spent 2 years living in Manila. BGC or Makati are the two best areas for digital nomads. However, I think Philippines is better for older retired expats over 50. You don’t run into many young smart digital nomads like you would in Malaysia or Thailand.

    Malaysia looks like the best option on this list since it’s fairly cheap and has fast WIFI. Of course, I think living in Chiang Mai provides so many networking opportunities plus the area is less polluted than the 3 cities you mentioned.

    Don’t sleep on Europe either. Eastern Europe is fairly affordable and sometimes I dream about leaving SE Asia and traveling through Europe and East Africa.

    Reply
    • Jason Fieber says

      August 29, 2019 at 2:04 am

      investortrip,

      Thanks for sharing your experience!

      I’m right there with you on Manila. BGC and Makati are by far the best areas in the Metro. I don’t really prioritize meeting digital nomads, though. I’ve been, shall we say, less than impressed with the entire DN scene. I’d rather meet locals and/or expats.

      Eastern Europe has some fantastic cities. Like I noted, I see a number of them being options for a spring/summer getaway. But they’re not all that great for full-time living, due to a number of issues (taxes, visas, climate, etc.).

      Best regards.

      Reply
  10. Frank says

    August 29, 2019 at 6:51 am

    I’ve been living in the Philippines since 2016. It’s overcrowded, polluted, and the food sucks. Filipinos are generally friendly but nosy and can be looking for something off foreigners for free. I avoid Manila, prefering the province and the beach in a place away from the tourist traps. I pay 9k peso a month for my apartment overlooking the beach. Cook all my own food and spend a lot of my time on the beach. Currently vacationing in Thailand but the prices have really gone up since the last time I lived here. Don’t know if there is a perfect place.

    Reply
    • Jason Fieber says

      August 29, 2019 at 7:20 am

      Frank,

      If you’re looking for a “perfect” place on this planet, you’ll be sorely disappointed.

      I hear you on the Philippines. It’s more of a wildcard for me than a top choice. I believe my lifestyle could be roughly approximated there, with different advantages and disadvantages. But I prefer Thailand, which is why I live here.

      If I were to live in the Philippines, it’d be Makati or BGC. A lot of the complaints that people have about the country could be somewhat alleviated by sticking to those areas, but I think a lot of the poorer foreigners that move to the Philippines cannot afford those areas. I’ve heard from a lot of people trying to make it in the Philippines with very little money.

      Cheers!

      Reply
    • πšπš’πšŒπšŽ$$ πŸ‡΅πŸ‡­πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡Έ (@Saving4XtraRice) says

      September 29, 2019 at 8:27 pm

      Hi Jason, my family of 4 are looking to move in 4 years to the Philippines. My family owns a property in Clark, Angeles city which is a little less urban than Metro Manila. We have not set which city to stay but definitely moving in 4 years hopefully infrastructure is better then.

      Reply
      • Jason Fieber says

        September 30, 2019 at 2:07 am

        Rice,

        Hey, that’s great!

        I hope the infrastructure does improve a bit by the time you make it over there. There’s a lot to like about the Philippines. But the infrastructure was one of the things that drew me to Thailand over the Philippines. That said, the visa situation here is starting to deteriorate quickly. Advantages and disadvantages to every place in the world. Just gotta find the place that treats you best. πŸ™‚

        Best regards.

        Reply
  11. financialvelociraptor says

    September 5, 2019 at 2:59 pm

    Enjoyed the part about Ho Chi Minh!

    Reply
    • Jason Fieber says

      September 5, 2019 at 3:06 pm

      fv,

      Glad you enjoyed it! πŸ™‚

      Cheers.

      Reply
  12. Philip Payne says

    October 2, 2019 at 10:03 pm

    Interesting list – I would not have picked any of those cities.

    Surprised you didn’t mention Penang. It has a lot going for it and I would rank it above each of your alternatives.

    I have lived and worked in SE Asia for many years and if I was to retire in SE Asia (but I am not), Penang would be my favoured destination.

    Reply
    • Jason Fieber says

      October 3, 2019 at 1:57 am

      Philip,

      Well, I didn’t list Penang because it doesn’t appeal to me at all. Malaysia in general doesn’t exactly “wow” me, but at least KL has the international flair, big-city amenities, and connectivity.

      That said, this was just a list to consider for research. The most important thing is to find a place that appeals to you, be it in SE Asia or anywhere else in the world. πŸ™‚

      Cheers.

      Reply
  13. pokeutopia says

    October 20, 2019 at 7:55 am

    Hey Jason,

    Hope your doing well. I am currently working in KL as a teacher and I’ve been here for just over 6 months. If your planning to visit KL next year, let me know if you would like to meet up for a coffee. Can also give you some tips about living in KL from a foreigner’s point of view.

    Regards
    David

    Reply
    • Jason Fieber says

      October 20, 2019 at 7:58 am

      David,

      Much appreciated!

      Hope you’re enjoying your time over there. KL is a very nice city. Might end up popping over there in early January for a Thai SETV. πŸ™‚

      Best regards.

      Reply

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