Culture shock is real.
First, let’s back up for a second.
It’s easy to live in a bubble in America.
You live in your bubble home. You drive your bubble car to your bubble office. Sit at your bubble cubicle and do your bubble job. Eat your bubble lunch. Try to finish another bubble afternoon without taking a bubble nap.
So on and so forth.
Many people take comfort in the giant bubble, with all of its built-in, smaller bubbles.
Now, one could argue as to whether or not comfort is the same as enjoyment. And perhaps ignorance is bliss.
Either way, there’s a dearth of true hardship and adventure when one lives inside of a giant bubble, which allows one to lull themselves into a sense of routine and familiarity that dulls their edge over time.
And it’s easy: there’s nothing challenging about taking the road most traveled.
I never really liked the bubble… or any of the smaller bubbles within the larger bubble.
I like having an edge. I like being sharp.
Blazing a new trail, and traveling down paths far less traveled, is fun for me. I enjoy taking on challenges, growing as a person.
Complacency kills the soul. It may be a slow death. And one may not even be aware of it in real-time. But it’s happening, nonetheless.
It’s a disdain for bubbles that has become a cornerstone of my broader view on life. It’s something that first motivated me to escape the bubble of being a wage slave. And it’s partially that drive to keep my edge sharp that has led me to become a dividend expat in Chiang Mai, Thailand.
What’s been really amazing – and eye-opening – about my experience thus far is the reverse culture shock that I’ve felt since living here.
Never Felt At Home When I Was At Home
As I just alluded to, I never felt quite right in America.
I kind of always felt like an outcast. It’s not that I ever cared about what others thought of me – it’s actually my lack of caring about other people’s beliefs/thoughts/views that helped me break free from the bubble – but it’s rather the sense of not having any comradeship that bothered me for a long time.
Whenever I’d discuss my aims or achievements with people back in America, the feedback I would get would usually be an interesting mix of bewilderment, curiosity, doubt, and rejection. And it would often be in that order.
To each their own is a motto I live by. What someone does with their life is up to them. We all have to make choices (and deal with the associated consequences). There’s nothing saying that my choices are any better than anyone else’s. I only aim to inspire those seeking to achieve similar goals and live a similar lifestyle by making similar choices and experiencing similar consequences. If someone wants to waste their money on stuff that won’t add any value or happiness to their life, that’s on them. If someone else wants to remain inside of an endless cycle of working and spending, they can have at it.
Someone eating fish doesn’t affect my Omega-3 fatty acids. Likewise, someone spending 100% of their income doesn’t negatively affect my budget. If anything, I benefit from mass consumerism (via the growing dividends my fantastic collection of businesses are able to send my way because they’re busy increasing their profit by selling more products and/or services to the world at large). So if my way of life is rejected by most Americans, that’s okay by me.
But that also doesn’t mean that I want to spend a ton of time around people who aren’t like-minded. People are free to live and spend as they wish. However, I’m also free to make the choice to avoid people who don’t share a common vision.
As such, I never felt at home, even when I was “home”.
What Is Home?
America is the place where I was born. But that doesn’t necessarily make it my home.
Home is wherever you are. Home is where you feel comfortable and happy. Home is truly whatever and wherever you make it. It’s taken me a while to come around to this realization. But now that I’m free of the belief and assumption that I must live in the place where I was born and raised, I’m able to become a global citizen who’s unchained from geographical expectations and ties.
Living in Chiang Mai, Thailand has given me a whole new view on what home is.
What’s wonderful about this place is that it’s become a sort of “mecca” for like-minded people who want to live outside the bubble, pursue passions, build businesses, create passive income, and live a more sustainable and enjoyable life.
It’s a common mindset – an agreement on a greater vision – that lends itself to redefining just what home really is.
Is home where I was born and raised? Or is home where people like me can be found? Is home where I come from or where I should be? Is home where I see similar-looking people or where I feel most happy and free?
Some people go to a foreign country and immediately feel culture shock. But I’ve experienced the opposite in Thailand. I’ve felt reverse culture shock here.
That’s because America is filled with anti-Jasons. There’s very little of Fieber Be Fire in America. But there’s a hell of a lot of Jones Keep Up there.
Why would that be my home? Why would I want to live in a place where everyone is living a life so directly and powerfully opposite of everything I believe in?
Conversely, there are many people in Chiang Mai who want nothing to do with the Joneses and all of their keeping up. And I believe a major part of what makes a home a home is being around like-minded people who support your values. Thus, I feel more at home now in Chiang Mai than I did back in America.
Speaking My Language Without Actually Speaking My Language
What is culture?
Is culture a larger group of people who live as you do? People who dress like you? Think like you? Act like you?
If so, there’s nothing shocking at all about living in Thailand, which is why I’ve experienced such a reverse form of culture shock here.
Motorbikes are common here.
When I rode a scooter around in America, I was a total weirdo. However, it’s very normal here.
Motorbikes are such a fantastic and easy way to get around. They consume less fuel. They require less maintenance and repairs. And they’re just plain fun. I feel like a kid when I’m on a scooter.
Public Transportation is everywhere here.
I used to ride a bus to a job at a luxury car dealership. You can only imagine the look on people’s faces when they’d see their service advisor (who’s going to help them with repairs on their $100k Audi) get off the bus.
And this was in a city where public transportation was limited at best. That’s because only a few major cities in America offer robust public transportation. And these cities tend to be cold, expensive, and relatively dangerous places to live.
Meanwhile, I can live in one of the safest, warmest, cheapest cities in the world, yet walk outside my door and catch a ride to just about anywhere across the city. Better yet, I’m not one of the few doing it. Many people are using public transportation here because it’s an efficient and cost-effective way to get around.
People eat cheap, delicious food here.
The food in Thailand is often noodles-based. I ate cheap ramen noodles for lunch for a year straight back in America. And I was laughed at for it.
I now get to eat healthier, more delicious (but still similar) food here, all while knowing that I’m among my own people doing the same. And it doesn’t cost a whole lot more than than my ramen noodles did.
I eat Thai food for lunch pretty much every day. It’s always something new. Always something cheap, tasty, fast, healthy, and high in quality. It’s pretty amazing.
Oh, and the portions here aren’t out of control, keeping costs down and my health in check.
Meanwhile, people in America stand in line and make reservations just to have the honor of spending 300% more than they should at some restaurant. And they’ll likely eat way more than they should. It’s baffling.
Small, cheap apartments are common here.
The $420/month apartment I rent here in Chiang Mai is actually on the more expensive and luxurious side of the spectrum of the city’s available apartment stock. Renting a place for half that much wouldn’t be difficult. Moreover, at around 400 square feet, it’s somewhat relatively large.
In America, it’s extremely difficult to find small and/or affordable apartments. Americans want it big. Be it pizza or housing, the thought is that bigger must be better. Well, bigger is just bigger. And more expensive. And more wasteful.
The small apartments I would come across in America (in Florida and in other places I could see myself living) were usually designed terribly (with kitchens and bathrooms that were stupidly big). Plus, they didn’t provide good value at all, which is due to (what I believe to be) an overvalued housing market across the US. The lack of supply of small apartments (because Americans want that aforementioned big housing, meaning the market caters to it) only exacerbated my troubles.
Meanwhile, small housing is everywhere here. In fact, it’s preferred. It’s dense in Chiang Mai (as well as Thailand as a whole). And people don’t make a ton of money. Yet with less money and less housing, the people here (in my experience thus far) are visually happier than the Americans I’ve met over the years. I mean, it’s not even close.
What used to really annoy me back in America is this overwhelming drive to own a home. (It’s not that I care if someone else buys their place, but I do care when someone else believes their beliefs should be my beliefs. And I also prefer to be around like-minded people).
People used to wonder how I could rent – especially a smaller and dated condo. If I were such a financial “expert”, I surely must eventually buy a place. Well, I never wanted to own. Never owned. Never will own. Those who wondered about my financial acumen own their homes. They’re also broke and still working. Per my motto noted above: to each their own.
The comical thing about it is that the ownership rate is way higher in Thailand than it is in the US. Americans want so badly to own, and they’re willing to work day and night to make it possible. Yet it’s a more widespread concept in a country where there’s a law against working more than 48 hours. How ironic.
People are more joyful here.
There’s a tangible positive attitude here that I’m falling in love with. There’s optimism, happiness, and smiles everywhere you go. Thailand is, after all, nicknamed the Land of Smiles. Seems apt to me.
I sense a far better work-life balance. Most things are mai pen rai. There’s a carefree attitude that is wonderful and infectious.
Moreover, lots of people are thin. This is one of the first things I noticed when I came here. There’s a direct correlation between health and happiness. And I for sure know that wealth is meaningless without health. The only time I really see overweight people here is when they’re from a Western country.
And there’s always a market or festival happening. I literally can’t walk down the street without seeing some new outdoor market/party/festival that just sprung out of nowhere. People, music, food, vendors, and laughter fill the streets wherever these markets pop up. There’s a visceral energy here that is very different from the sterility that’s omnipresent across much of America.
In the States, there’s a lot of hustling. It’s hurry up and wait. It’s I, me, mine. It’s money, money, money. It’s overweight, overworked, overstressed. It’s sterile. Said another way, it’s the complete opposite of who I am.
What is culture?
Language must surely be part of a common culture.
Well, I speak a different language. I don’t speak Thai.
But I can tell you this: the Thais speak my language, even if they don’t literally speak my language. Just about everything that I value can be found in abundance here. It’s a life that speaks to me in a way that being able to speak totally fluent English with someone could never trump in terms of importance. Maybe I can’t have a winding, philosophical conversation with the average Thai. Mai pen rai. It’s no problem. We’re on the same page anyway.
Conclusion
I don’t think I’ll ever move back to the States. If Thailand doesn’t work out over the long run for whatever reason, I’d simply try somewhere else. America has, for me, become a place where I don’t have much in common with the people there. Maybe I was once part of that culture. But it’s no longer so. I don’t see it as home any longer.
If anything, true “culture shock” would occur if I were to ever try to reintegrate back into American culture. I’d feel like people aren’t speaking my language, even if they are speaking English.
I never thought I’d experience reverse culture shock. Coming to a place where the typical idea of culture is so vastly different from what I’m used to would seem to invite culture shock, perhaps to the point of being miserable by trying to live in such a radically unfamiliar place.
But I feel like I’m finally home, among my people. They speak my language here, even if they don’t commonly speak English extremely fluently.
What do you think? Ever experience anything like this? Do you ever feel not at home when you’re home?
Thanks for reading.
P.S. If you’re interested in becoming a dividend expat, or if you’re interested in leveraging geographical arbitrage, I’ve put together a handful of resources that are absolutely essential.
What a great article!!!!
Alex,
Thanks so much. Glad you enjoyed it! 🙂
Cheers.
Wow jason. While i am happy to note that you are happy, i cant escape the feeling that you were rather unhappy in the us? Ironic that so many want to move there. Anyways, enjoy and stay happy.
Rishi
Rishi,
Many may want to move there. But not all that glitters is gold. 🙂
Cheers!
I’ve always felt that anywhere can be home – it’s all in your outlook and attitude. With Chang Mai, you’ve found a good match for what you want in life. I really enjoy what you write, Jason. You’re keeping it real.
Chris,
I’ve done my best to always keep it real, for better or worse. This time is very much for the better (at least for me). 🙂
Best regards!
Jason, I‘m loving your article. It reminds me so much of the feelings I had when I spent some time in SEA a couple of years ago. I also instantly felt at home although the culture was so different at the same time. I often think about coming back to the region one day for the long term. Until then, I‘m stuck in Germany and enjoy the miserable weather out here.
Jung,
Thank you. Really glad you enjoyed the article! 🙂
If you ever find yourself back here (especially up in CM), make sure to drop a line. It’d be great to meet up for coffee or something.
Best wishes.
I experience culture shock every time I go back to the States to visit family. I can handle about a week of it before I’m ready to come back home to CR.
Americans live to work.
I like cultures where people work to live.
It sounds like Thailand is very similar to Costa Rica. I like living in a place where it’s perfectly okay to not have a lot of money. Where people are closer to our true necessities, and actually slow down to enjoy life.
Where there are very few big houses, big cars, etc.
I’m a lifer. I plan on dying in Costa Rica.
Steve,
Couldn’t agree more!
Also a “lifer” here. If not Thailand, somewhere very similar. But I suspect it’ll be Thailand. 🙂
Thanks for adding that.
Best regards.
Man I’m glad you are enjoying it over there. Keep these articles coming they are gold
Ronald,
I’m enjoying it very much. Glad that excitement and happiness came through. 🙂
Cheers!
Glad you’re settling in Jason. Fortune really does favor the brave :- )
Your frustrations in your home country really do resonate with me. When you start deviating from the norm, unfortunately friends and family start to judge you. They simply can’t acknowledge the fact you want to change your life, for the better.
That’s because they’ll never leave their little bubble. They have their own opinions of how your life should be. How dare you be different? And that’s why you have to leave for pastures new.
Life is too short to be fighting a parochial mind set. As you say, it’s finding an environment where you naturally fit in and connecting with folk that accept and respect your outlook on life and share your deepest values.
thecannycontractor,
Definitely. It’s the “crab mentality”. People want to drag you down, if only because misery loves company. And ignorance is, unfortunately, bliss. Plus, people don’t like what they don’t understand. That relates back to the parochial mindset you cite. Couldn’t agree more.
You’re absolutely right about limited perspectives. I have better things to do than trying to overcome that stuff. May as well just go directly to a place that’s more in line with who I am and what I value. 🙂
Thanks for the support!
Best regards.
Hi Jason, great writing! I’m glad everything is going as expected on your journey abroad. I agree 100% with you. Home is were you best feel, I doesn’t matter were as long as you are happy. This is only one life and we have to enjoy it the best we can. Take care my friend. Keep us posted! Omar; from West palm Beach
Omar,
Definitely, my friend. Life is short. Way too short to not enjoy it as much as possible. That belief is what drove me to financial independence. And it’s what drove me to Thailand. So far, so (very) good. 🙂
Hope all is well!
Cheers.
I pretty much feel the same way about America as you do. I really want to stay and help my country…but I really wish Americans were more willing to help themselves.
Mysticaltyger,
Never felt any guilt about that. Still don’t.
I’ve only ever aimed to provide inspiration and motivation to those who seek the light. As I noted multiple times in the article, to each their own.
Cheers!
I don’t think it’s about guilt as much as it’s about seriously considering one’s purpose / mission in life. That’s what I’m grappling with now. I certainly wish you the best on your journey, though. I love reading about it. I know it’s time for a change for me, just don’t know the details yet.
Hey Jason,
Loving these updates from Thailand! Just a question–now that your baseline costs have been considerably lowered by moving overseas, are you going to be able to start making purchases for your portfolio with your writing income, or do you expect to be spending more given the greater amount of enjoyment-per-dollar you can receive over there? I know I’d be eating out a heck of a lot more if lunch was $1.20 than when it’s $12.
I know you’ve stepped away from too much of the nuts-and-bolts of your dividend investing, but I still love looking back at the old DM archives and seeing the actual, month-by-month transformation from $33/mo at the beginning to where you are now.
I’d already started on the path to FIRE before I found your blog back in 2013, but I don’t think anyone has kept me more motivated along the way than you.
Thanks so much!
Brent,
Sorry. I just saw this comment. You ended up in the spam folder. I think it’s because of the email address you entered into the comment form.
My overall expenses aren’t terribly lower. What’s happened here is that my purchasing power has increased dramatically. I’m spending a similar amount of money (in terms of outgoings) compared to when I left the States, but my lifestyle is a lot more flexible, fun, and carefree. I’m living a totally different life. As such, the spending isn’t at all comparable. This lifestyle would cost at least 3x more in the States. For example, I’m living alone (instead of with a significant other) in a beautiful and furnished apartment, which is located in a fantastic location in a dynamic and exciting city. I’m also eating out a lot more – I hate cooking/cleaning/grocery shopping, so this is really nice. I’m also visiting local attractions and going out to meetups/events with fellow entrepreneurs. I’m dating (and paying for everything). I didn’t come over here to see see just how low I could get my spending. Frankly, I haven’t been trying to live frugally at all in Chiang Mai. I don’t have to worry about this stuff anymore. I’m past that now. If anything, a lot of my content now has transcended the constant worrying/thinking about money. You can’t teach that mindset, though.
So I don’t expect to invest a lot more than I was before. My active/online income is generally spread out across the following: investing, philanthropy, business expenses, business taxes, and student loan repayment (but not in that order). This also isn’t going to change. If my online/active income increases, most of those categories all expand. But it isn’t like one category (like, say, investing) somehow expands considerably in isolation. Taxes go up a bit. Expenses may go up a bit. I can give a little more away. I can invest a little more. It works like that. At least for me.
By the way, I have an article coming out next week that I think you might enjoy. It’s going to discuss what I’m talking about here in this comment (active income versus passive income and the interplay between the two for me personally). And I’ll also share my October Chiang Mai expenditures in early November. I don’t suspect this report is going to be terribly impressive to some people, because I’m just not trying hard any more. I could probably live on $500 per month here, if I absolutely had to. I just don’t want/need to. I don’t obsess over money. I obsess over passionate pursuits, personal fulfillment, and living the kind of life that makes me happy to jump out of bed with a huge smile on my face. It just so happens that I’m in a far better situation (economically and otherwise) to achieve that here in CM, as I discussed in the article.
Hope that helps!
Best wishes.
Very much looking forward to those articles. Most articles/VLOGs about spending in CM seems to be about spending as little as possible. Looking forward to see how much one would spend living the good life you seem to be doing.
SF,
Yeah, I’ve actually met a few people doing that here. But that’s because they have no choice. It’s not like they’re loving it. At least not those I’ve talked to. But they come over here with very little in the way of resources, and they’re trying to build a business (or two or three). They couldn’t do that at home because of the difference in purchasing power, so they come over here to really lock things down and build out. It’s very, very cool and inspiring. But they’ll be the first to admit that it’s not that enjoyable. It’s just a phase you go through. It’s part of the journey. It’s like when I was eating ramen noodles day after day. I didn’t love it. But I did it to get here. And I obviously have zero regrets about that. I’ve been honest about not seeing extreme frugality as a permanent lifestyle. It’s just an accelerator that you use to boost yourself early on, then moderate things as you go. Just the way I’ve always seen it.
One person’s perfect harmony between spending and happiness will naturally be different from another person’s. I personally wouldn’t like living off of, say, $500 per month or something like that over here. But I think a very high quality of life (which includes basically not worrying about money whatsoever) can be accomplished on about $1,200 or so per month here (for a single person living alone). And that’s right about where my monthly passive income sits, so it’s quite perfect. Plus, that’s living as an urban bachelor, dating, eating out for every meal, playing tourist, and going to social events with other like-minded people. To each their own. 🙂
Best regards!
That just sounds awesome, looking forward to the articles even more.
I haven’t gone all-in with the frugality but still living rather frugally in a very high cost of living area (San Francisco) working full-time with a side gig to boost my savings. On the right track and right now I’m enjoying life even though my spending is much lover than that of my likes (albeit not as low as it could be if I really wanted to). Your blog serves as an inspiration and even though I haven’t embraced your ultra-frugal lifestyle from your early days I still use much of what you’ve written as guidance for my decisions. Keep it up and again, looking forward to those articles!
Good read!
SF,
Thanks so much! 🙂
Cheers.
Great article, Jason. How is the healthcare system there? Maybe you already mentioned it and I missed it but I was curious about that.
Ryan,
Well, there’s a reason why medical tourism (i.e., people coming from the West and more wealthy countries to seek out quality and cheap medical care) is so popular here.
Healthcare is high quality and much cheaper than the West. Just like most everything else. I won’t be discussing it much, though, because I so rarely need access to the healthcare system. One benefit of my lifestyle is that I’m physically and mentally healthier than the average American.
Best regards.
Great post, Jason! I enjoy the edge in your writing and I can sense the influence the reverse culture shock has had on it. It just seems like the new environment has influenced your writing the same way a new environment would influence mine. And I gotta admit, you’re really selling me on Chiang Mai. It sounds perfect! To be honest, I’ve been feeling like I don’t fit in a lot lately. I certainly don’t suit the expensive city life and I find the typical ladder climb lifestyle to be extremely depressing. Other than like-minded bloggers, I haven’t met anyone else that has similar ambitions in life. I personally can’t stand the bubble life! With that said, it’s motivating to see someone like yourself find a better lifestyle. Thanks for sharing! Your article was well written and I thoroughly enjoyed the read! 🙂
Graham,
Thanks so much. Glad you enjoyed the piece. And I’m happy that my experiences (and happiness) are shining through. I honestly couldn’t be more pleased with my choice. It’s been absolutely amazing. 🙂
Wish you the best of luck with finding your own path over there. I think that’s half the fun – finding the right trail and then blazing it.
Best wishes.
Great article. Looks like you are taking the path less traveled for sure. Really enjoy you blogging your journey. I am impressed.. It sounds amazing.
David,
I’ve been taking the path less traveled for years. This is just another example of blazing forward (and sharing the view with you readers). Couldn’t be happier! 🙂
Cheers!
Glad you enjoyed the life there.
It’s a true blessings being able to feel at “home” even while you are someplace that you are not familiar with yet.
B,
I feel blessed to be here. Took a lot of hard work and courage – much of which most people lack. It’s very similar to achieving FI. Most people just don’t have it. But I’m very glad I’ve done all that I’ve done. Couldn’t be happier. 🙂
Cheers!
Love this article. I feel the same way. I do , however, disagree slightly with the housing comments. I imagine in most parts of the country there is a huge demand for big houses, but in places I’ve lived like NYC there is a huge demand for smaller and more efficient places. Unfortunately regulations get in the way of micro apartments actually getting built.
Nick,
Right. I was using the average American as an example here. NYC is just one (very large) city. Moreover, that city is perhaps the epitome of the “rat race” I so thoroughly despise.
Cheers!
Take note of the various phases of culture shock: https://medium.com/global-perspectives/the-4-stages-of-culture-shock-a79957726164
I’ve been here in Japan for 17 years now, and I’ve been through the entire cycle several times. It’s much easier to deal with if you know it’s coming.
Good luck! I hope to live in Thailand for a couple of years some day (really want to learn the language better -although I did a week of lessons in Chiang Mai in 1998) 🙂
Ben,
I haven’t read the article you link to, but there’s always the “honeymoon phase” to be aware of. However, I’m sure that article was written for the average person (or at least the average expat). I’m way, way off the average. Of course, time will tell. If anything changes, I’ll be sure to share. 🙂
If you ever find yourself over here (specifically in CM), make sure to look me up!
Best regards.
Will do! I normally head to Koh Samui for family holidays, but I’m sure I’ll end up in CM sometime soon.
Be happy to buy you some noodles 😉
Jason,
This was one of the best articles that you’ve penned. Well done.
I get what you mean about fitting better here. I did the same thing and moved here 11 years ago but I’ve been working here during this time. It’s been a very enjoyable experience overall.
Best wishes,
Mike
Mike,
Thank you. I worked a little longer and harder on this one, as I really wanted to express myself fully and clearly. 🙂
Very glad to be here. I thought it’d work out well – or else I never would have moved here. But it’s far exceeded my expectations.
Best regards!
Jason, very interesting article. I’m glad you found a perfect match for you.
I do share with you the fact that I never quite fit with the “system” and way of life here in America (I’m Canadian). What I do (save like crazy) and what I hope for (early retirement to spend my time enjoying life) make me look like a weirdo here in Quebec. But since I have a very strong inner scorecard, my wife and kids, I really don’t care. But It would be refreshing to spend more time with like-minded people and they are definitely hard to find here in the french province of Quebec where people are just trying to copycat americans buying luxury cars, 50k kitchens while they eat out at the restaurant every day and 450k huge houses with 30k pools to enjoy swimming only a month or two per year because of the cold weather.
But, being born here gave us a lot of options at least, options that may not have been available even for Chiang mai people. So I try to pull the most out of my situation.
Great article!
Allan,
Thanks so much!
I totally hear you. I also do really well with that “inner scorecard” (as Buffett likes to call it). However, that doesn’t mean that I wouldn’t vastly prefer being around other people playing the same game, with the same scorecards. Being able to spend time with like-minded people is priceless. The fact that it’s so much cheaper is almost unbelievable. I’m actually attending a little pool party for fellow CM entrepreneurs tomorrow. That’s just not something I was going to be able to do on a regular basis in the States.
However, being born and raised in the States (even in Detroit as a white kid) has been a blessing, as I’ve noted many times. I’ll forever be grateful for it. But that doesn’t mean I have to stay there just because I was born and raised there.
Thanks for dropping by!
Best regards.
Until I read this article, I didn’t have any plan to visit Thailand, but now I feel like I really need to come and stay there at least for a month.
Keep us posted about your new life there..
Best Regards,
FJ,
Who knows?! You may like it. 🙂
In all seriousness, though, it’s obviously not for everyone. But I just couldn’t be more pleased with my choice to come here. There are a few key decisions I’ve made in my life that have had dramatically positive long-term effects. I now see that moving here will rank among one of them.
Thanks for stopping in!
Cheers.
Hi Jason,
Excellent article, thanks for sharing the culture differences between Thailand and the U.S. Your article drive me to Visit CM just to explore the culture and experience the differences noted on your article. I have a friend who visited Thailand and suddenly he decided to quit his job, sell his house in Europe and re-locate to Thailand after finding his future wife.
I am very glad your enjoying the relocation to CM, I am looking forward for more interesting articles about your experience in CM.
atm,
Thanks so much. Glad you enjoyed it! 🙂
It’s truly wonderful over here. I’ll surely eventually settle in and find things I don’t enjoy so much (as will happen anywhere), but the difference between here and the US is incredible. There are things to not like too much over here. It’s just that there are a hell of a lot more things to not like too much in the States. But to each their own. The US is perfect for a lot of Americans.
It sounds like your friend found true happiness. Good for him!
Cheers.
Hi Jason,
I think everyone lives in a bubble – challenge is finding the right one for you – and it seems you have for now and if you change your mind – that will be fun also. It is wonderful to be young and free – most people don’t have that option – family and responsibility play a big part – so your travels are especially interesting. Thank you so much for sharing your adventures. I know in almost no time at all you will speak the language.
All the best to you – your story is inspiring and your sharing has helped so many – I am so happy I found your blog in the beginning – looking forward to more. Pat
Pat,
That’s an interesting take. I’m not sure I’d totally agree. We all have our routines, interests, hobbies, etc. But I don’t think of anything over here as being inside of a bubble. Not like in America, anyway. And I say that after experiencing both sides of the coin. Of course, can one ever know the difference unless they live inside of a bubble and then later escape it? That said, one could almost totally replicate an American lifestyle over here, bubble and all, if they really wanted to. It’s an interesting conversation. 🙂
Appreciate the support. I’m very happy to have found my way to a place where I finally feel like I fit in. It’s a lot of fun, and I’m looking forward to exploring and sharing even more.
Best regards.
Sorry Jason – I did not really express what I meant to say. The bubble I am talking about for you is – freedom – to be with like people with the same (although maybe different interest). This is a luxury not a lot of people experience. Probably most of us just live the life we are given. Family, friends, responsibilities that we cannot enjoy the freedom you live – so it is so enjoyable to travel with your adventure. I am old but I would like to think I might do what you are doing now if I were younger and no responsibilities. So happy you are exploring the world – the young teaches us – thank you. Pat
I live in Canada and I can absolutely relate to having culture shock in my own culture. A lot of this will not be relatable to you but the conversations that I overhear between the women in my office just make me feel like a stranger in a strange land. Just this morning there was a serious conversation about how naked they feel without mascara, and how they absolutely have to wear it even on a weekend when they are not even planning on leaving the house. Oh and the time someone was talking about the mani/pedi she got on the weekend – it was only $60, isn’t that a fantastic deal!! And some women get mink extensions to their eyelashes, and eyeliner and eyebrows tattooed on – and it’s totally worth the pain and the price to just not have to think about that in the morning anymore!! And I just keep quiet because anything I say is just going to make them think that I’m the strange one. I would love to work in a space where everyone shared my values, but I guess that’s why I read blogs like yours.
Sara,
It’s sad to feel like a stranger in a strange land. That’s how I felt for years. The US has a lot to like (don’t get me wrong on that), but I just couldn’t stay anymore. I felt like I was paying a lot of money to attend a sporting event I didn’t even want to see. To feel so out of place, and to know that I’m paying so much money for the privilege, bummed me out. It became nonsensical.
Hope you’re able to find your place in the world one day. In the meanwhile, I’m glad you get to see what these experiences are like through the sharing of others (like myself). 🙂
Best wishes.
Thank you for your inspiring and philosophical story about life. I always tell people that I am completely against the materialism and the extreme capitalism (which allows a few people to be super rich). In fact, I retire earlier than others because the capitalism exists in the United States. But I avoided the materialism and stopped spending unnecessary items at an early working career (and increased my saving rate). The bull (growing) economy doesn’t last forever and will turn the corner into the bear economy sooner or later. I am not sure whether or not many fellow Americans are ready for another recession and another shrinking economy while they enjoy spending sprees. Human beings are stupid and don’t learn from the earlier mistakes…
I will also never own home and want to keep my option to move around whenever I want. Some people still believe in the American dream (owing his or her own home). Such a broken dream puts many in the tons of debt and eliminates their real freedom. Most Americans work till 60’s or 70’s because of the debt from home and auto. I don’t believe in the American dream.
As you left the United States, I left the United States because I no longer fit in the culture. I didn’t want to follow the middle-class stereotype and wanted to live just as who I was. I made a right decision to be an expat and will unlikely move back to the soil I once called my home. I have no regret.
ER2019,
I hear you. Capitalism is a wonderful economic system. But it’s a shame that so few benefit so extremely from it. Of course, there’s something to be said for personal responsibility. I’m a regular guy, yet I’ve benefited quite a bit from capitalism. But that’s because I made the proper choices. A lot of people don’t make those correct choices, as your comment notes. I always say to each their own, though. If someone else decides to work their life away to pay for a bunch of stuff that (in my steadfast view) doesn’t add much (or any) happiness/value to one’s life, they can have at it. But I’ll simply choose to take a different path, which includes finding my way to a place where more like-minded people thrive.
I feel the same as you do, though. I strongly doubt I’ll ever come back. I’ve totally reimagined what home is. And I’m much better off for it.
Cheers!
Great article. I read it as I’m sitting in a hotel room 200 miles away from my family for a job that my employer thinks I will “love” with one of our sister divisions. It is a raise, it is more prestigious, but it is also more stress, more time away from family, and a hectic and dysfunctional office. On top of that I am surrounded by individuals that are concerned with only earning more money and buying more of whatever they buy. After reading this article, I am more motivated than ever to fuel my dividend portfolio and get to a place I feel like home. Thanks Jason
Royce,
I know your feelings all to well. I used to sometimes look around and wonder if I was actually part of the same species.
Glad you found some inspiration in the article. I share from the heart! 🙂
Best regards.
Wonderful article! Could not agree more. And I love SEA.
Your comments about “People eat cheap, delicious food here” made me smile.
I might consider staying there for a year or two post FI.
By the way, what Thai health care provider/insurance do you use?
Thank you in advance.
Dean,
Thanks!
I was actually just eating a little Khao Soi earlier, surrounded by Thais eating rice and noodles. I just smiled as I sat there and ate my delicious dinner (which cost me less than $2.00). I feel like I’m walking in a dream over here.
As for health insurance, I noted this somewhere else. I don’t have any health insurance. I self-insure, take on my own risk, collect my own premium, don’t pay on my own claims, and build my own float. But I’m young and in excellent shape/health. You’ll have to make your own call there, if you ever decide to jump ship. Americans are sometimes brainwashed into thinking health insurance is always necessary, but that’s probably because they live in a very expensive place (especially in regards to healthcare) that also happens to breed poor health.
Cheers!
Jason, new reader to the blog and really enjoying it. Nice article and it seems as though you have a good handle on making your happiness and finding your place. I am original from north Asia, and have spent a lot of time in South East Asia (and in Thailand). I still love Thailand, but I am glad that you are realistic that it will not be all “bed of roses” forever. Things which are now part of the newness and interesting become a bit more of an irritant (for example, scooters blocking crosswalks so pedestrians have problems in crossing 5555). Yes, the honeymoon phase will end, you seem to understand that and how to deal with it.
One other comment is on health insurance. I am maybe too much of a wimp, but I would be afraid of going without insurance. I was involved with a friend who was in an accident in a taxi (not his fault), but he got glass in his eye. He was taken to the local public hospital and sat and sat and sat in the hallway waiting to be seen with blood from his eye. We friends finally got him taken to a private hospital, where the care was much better (but also much more expensive).
On ThaiVisa or other forums, there are regular appeals to help someone (farang) who was injured, sick, etc.and cannot pay their hospital/doctor bills and the hospital wont release their passport, etc until they pay. Thai healthcare is good, but you get what you pay for, especially when it is for more complicated medical care. Basic care, no problem, but I would not want to go to a general Thai public hospital for anything serious (but that is true of most places in Asia, and I am speaking as a native Asian. LOL)
I do not mean to sound depressing (please dont take it this way 🙂 ). If you are okay in self insuring for large expenses, then okay. Otherwise, it may be a good idea to look for “catastrophic insurance”. All it takes is one scooter/taxi/car/truck driver not paying attention, one pothole in the sidewalk you dont see, etc. and you could have hundreds of thousands of baht in costs.
Anyway, keep up the good articles and I will enjoy reading more about your time in Thailand as you move forward. 🙂
Becky,
Thanks for dropping by! Hope you continue to enjoy the content. 🙂
I’m okay self-insuring. I have the financial wherewithal to assume the risk. But as I noted in the article a few times, “to each their own”. If someone else wants/needs insurance, they should absolutely get insurance. It’s really that simple. I’m certainly not recommending you or anyone else to go without insurance (auto, health, home, etc.). Most people lack my financial wherewithal. Furthermore, I own shares in a few insurance companies, so I’m always more than happy to hear that people cling to insurance. But I don’t think it’s necessary for me (factoring in my age, health, fitness, lifestyle, etc.). There’s catastrophic risk to be sure, but I’m okay playing the odds. And it’s not like some kind of catastrophic incident would be cheap in the States, even with health insurance. Meanwhile, I continue to build up my own float, which only further adds to my ability to both be free and take on risk.
Best regards!
Hey Jason, I’m glad you found a home! Wonderful read, thanks so much. 😀
MDD,
Thanks so much. Truly happy over here. 🙂
The US has a lot to like (especially if you’re a more typical person), but Chiang Mai is just a far more fitting and advantageous place for who I’ve become.
Cheers!
Awesome update, Jason!
That’s interesting that home ownership is so much higher in a region where incomes are lower and land is scarcer. I think you’re right that it points to a culture’s value system. I love owning a house, and am working to pay ours off as quickly as I can, but I can completely understand why someone would want to avoid the whole hassle and rent instead.
We, unfortunately, live in an area where even relatively small houses are shockingly expensive (our 1,200 sqft property from 1945 is currently worth more than $500,000), but rents are even higher. NOT a good place to early retire, but a good place to grind it out as we build up our Independence Fund. I can’t imagine intentionally living and spending here my whole life–it’s easy to see how someone could work til 60 and wind up without enough to live on, if they did not live deliberately.
Looking forward to more from you in Thailand!
Charles
Charles,
Thanks so much. Glad you enjoyed the update. Hope for many more updates to come. 🙂
The place we live in to achieve FI might not be the best place to remain after FI is achieved. There are a lot of reasons this could be true. But that’s okay. It’s a big world out there!
Best regards.
Very cool. I’m glad you are living your life the way you want to. I think that’s what it is all about. Tom
Tom,
Absolutely. We should all aim to live a life that’s customized for and by us. Financial independence is the big key to the puzzle, as it allows for much of that customization. And it allows us to be flexible as we grow and change. 🙂
I can only hope for the same for everyone else out there.
Thanks for the support!
Best wishes.
Glad to hear that you are happy ultimately in CM! Costs are reasonable in South Asia and SE Asia. I used to follow you at @DM. I also feel that we here are in a rate race and on a treadmill from 9 to 5: difficult to get ahead, with so many expenses: what to talk about multiple of insurances: home, auto, life, security, property, medical you name it. I’m trying to build a passive income: $3K in 3K that hopefully makes me FI and free from this rat race. Keep posting this motivating journey and love to follow. Good luck in CM.
R2R,
Thanks so much!
Life is wonderful over here. I truly feel like I’m walking around in a dream. If it is just a dream, it’s okay. Just as long as I never wake up. Ha! 🙂
I can only hope for so much happiness, contentment, and fulfillment for everyone else.
Cheers.
Damn, Jason, I just read this article for the first time. You just encapsulated (notice I don’t say bubble) so many of the thoughts / feelings I have wrestled with over the years, and wasn’t exactly quite sure how to express to people. In the end, I guess it is like skydiving, which I was lucky enough to do in New Zealand… I can talk about it all day long, and even show you pictures, but until someone straps in, and jumps out, they won’t truly ‘get it’.
I loved my scooter / motorcycle over my car as a kid / college student. I never really had a lot of stuff. I never ‘fit in’ at a corporate job, so I hid in school (12 years of college) until I figured out that I just wanted to work for myself to have a sense of freedom. At 50, I have never owned a home, and rented a 540 square foot house that we all called the ‘Doll House’ because of its size. I caught a lot of flack for not buying something when I could, and had negative labels applied because I wasn’t participating in the American dream of ownership… read, debt, which I haven’t had in a very long time (even though I spend almost $500k on my credit cards / year for my business, they are paid off every month – I have A LOT of frequent flier points to come visit you in Thailand. I just realized the other day that the biggest prison in the United States is our collegiate system… there is so much pressure for kids to go to college and begin their marching ant routine that said kids, and their parents are willing to indebt themselves for life. Part of their ‘culture’ status is what school they went to. My dentist shared with me that he is still $350K in debt after coming to america to pursue the dream of being a dentist here from Colombia. OMG! I almost choked. I almost bought an apartment once, and it was just over 1000 square feet. It felt to big / impersonal to me. I like smaller / cozier. Etc etc. I could go on forever, but in the end, I will sum it up and say this:
I get you… I wish there had been more people like you, near me. You are a comrade in arms, a brother in spirit, and you are helping me complete my (debt free) pHd… in life.
Andrew,
Thanks for the sweet and thoughtful comment, man. I really appreciate it.
One of the wonderful things about living over here – one of my favorite things, really – is how you feel like you’re a bit more among your own kind. I felt like such an outcast in America. And it just shouldn’t be that way. But I feel this energy over here. It really is quality over quantity, experiences over stuff, and life over work over here. It’s not that way with everyone, of course. You’ll see a Mercedes here and a mansion there. But the dynamics are so different from America, it’s not even funny. This isn’t just with the Thai people, either, as there are a lot of opportunities for kismet where you might meet these other like-minded people (from all over the world) who are doing really cool things. I don’t find myself ending up best friends with everyone I say hello to, but the concentrated pool of unique people who are thinking outside the box is pretty refreshing for me. Just to sit beside people jamming away on some business at the coffee shop or coworking space is nice.
You should definitely come check it out sometime and see if it’s up your alley or not. 🙂
Best regards!
Oh yeah… it is definitely in the plan to come check it out for myself. I have some things here that need to be addressed, and once the chains of (financial) oppression have been broken, these wings (or more likely Air Cathay’s) will fly my way on over to Asia, which has been a lifelong dream – Thailand, Japan, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Bali, Malaysia, India, etc. I want to make Thailand my home base for that. I absolutely must get to one of the elephant reserves and take care of some of those gentle giants. Have you looked into doing that?
When I first read this post, I was so excited / inspired to respond that I threw structure and grammar out the window :P, and also forgot to mention my ongoing obsession with tiny houses. My thought was that as long as I had to stay here in the US, a tiny house would suffice. ~280-340 well utilized square feet sounded just fine to me. They have also evolved, and increased in price, into mini replicas of the same homes people are trying to escape from due to cost / maintenance / etc, which to me is quite ironic. You can now spend $100-150k on a tiny house! Ahhh America. Even tiny homes are being financed for 15+ years now.
Jason, I can definitely understand why you felt the way you did. I only had the pleasure of meeting you in Sarasota, and I have to say that that area felt lifeless to me, and not reflective of who you are at all. Very senior (nothing wrong with that as I am fast approaching those ages), but I got the sense that the people there were just playing some tennis and golf on their way to the great retirement home in the sky. There was no sense of deep community, culture, connection, etc… all the things that you are finding where you are. I am sure you could have moved to a place where there were younger, vibrant, entrepreneurial, like minded spirits (Tampa, Portland, Seattle, Denver, etc come to mind), but that would have only been one part of the equation addressed. There is also the cost of living, consumerism, pace of life, lack of culture, etc. That said, you were obviously looking for more than a geographical fix, and as John Kabat Zinn said, ‘where ever you go, thats where you are’. You are also on a quest to challenge yourself, expand, grow, and discover what truly lies underneath the hood. I am enjoying the process along side of you. That, is juice that is worth the squeeze.
Andrew,
That’s funny that you mention a tiny house. I was just on YouTube earlier today watching some stuff on that. But then I was looking at the prices. They’ve really shot up over the last few years. Then the “suggestions” to the right started popping up for videos of people living in buses and vans in order to escape the high housing costs in the States. I’m just shaking my head over here. To each their own, but I just don’t get that. I can have a pretty amazing quality of life over here for what these people are looking at – and it doesn’t require living in a van (or anything else they’re talking about). So much for the American Dream.
Yeah, what you’re referencing lines up with the thoughts I had when I came to the conclusion that Sarasota wouldn’t work any more. I stayed in the city a lot longer than I would have liked, as my significant other was pretty adamant about staying. But it started getting to the point to where I couldn’t be there anymore. The problem is, most places in the US that offer those dynamic, urban, walkable, youthful, vibrant areas, with greater access to like-minded people, are quite expensive – and they have the other issues we’re talking about. It meant I’d be one step forward and two steps back. Plus, they’re usually in colder climates, which is something I’d prefer to avoid. I simply found myself unable to find what I was looking for in the States. But then I realized the only thing limiting me to the States was me. I was getting in my own way, as usual. It’s a big world out there. Why not look everywhere? When I started to do that, a whole lot of other options started looking way more appealing than even my best ideas in the States. I mean, if you have the job, family, friends, and emotional and/or physical attachments keeping you tied to a place in the States, I get it. I simply didn’t have that, which is a blessing and a curse. But it sure made me free enough to start thinking of myself as a global citizen who could kind of pick the right place anywhere.
This move has allowed for a lot of reflection, growth, success, and fun. I’m becoming a version of myself that is so much better than anything I could have built in the States, due to the different structures in place. And I’m really grateful for that.
If I’m able to inspire and motivate a few people along the way, like yourself, it makes it that much more worth it for me. 🙂
Best regards.
Jason! Sawadee krap! Late comment on this post. I’ve followed your journey since 2013 when it was the DM days. Used to comment as Tyler in Thailand since I lived in Bangkok from 2013-2015. When you broke with DM I had some life changes happen and I lost track of your writing for a while but I’m so happy to have found your new writing home. My wife and I LOVED the weekends we were able to spend in Chiang Mai, mountain biking in the hills, picking fresh lychees from the trees. And if I had to pick a single food to be stranded on a desert island with for the rest of my life, it would be Chaing Mai noodles, referred to locally as Khao Soi. One of my all time favorite foods. Such a great place to be. We have since moved from Thailand but are continuing to travel the globe living in all sorts of interesting new places and cultures and pursuing our own form of financial independence. Anyhow, I know I’m late to the party here, but I just wanted to reach out and say hello and congratulate you on your move and wish you well. And if you haven’t been down to Krabi yet, I highly recommend it for a fun weekend with a reasonably priced Air Asia ticket. Great temple, beautiful coastline, stunning geography, and fun night market. Be well brother and keep enjoying life to the fullest!
Tyler,
Hey, I hope the travel is treating you and your wife very well! 🙂
I’ve had a lot of Khao Soi here. One of my favorite dishes now. I’ve even posted video of Khao Soi Mae Sai via my YouTube channel. Awesome stuff.
Glad you found the blog. Hope you stay in touch while enjoying all that life can offer you.
Best wishes.
Hi Jason
I’m feeling chatty today so I’m going to make a few posts 🙂 I spent a lot of time in southern Ireland traveling there 3 – 4 times a year ( over many years ) staying from a week to a month at a time. I love it there the life style is a slower than the US and most people live ( you get it ) not working for the stuff in life.
My wife and I own our home here in the US ( I am blessed to be able to pay cash ) its 680 sq feet on .4 acres our real estate taxes are less than $300 a year so our expenses are very very low.
The one thing that keeps calling me is to live a life of less “stuff” years ago I watched a PBS show called “Affluenza” and the follow up “Escape from Affluenza” and those shows made me think of the wasteful nonsense live we live here in the US…
The older I get the more I reflect on what life really is and its not all about stuff. George Carlin did a great skit about Americans called “Stuff” and a line he uses is “I need a bigger house so I can have more STUFF” LOL
Bob,
I hear you!
I sometimes think I was born in the wrong country. Or perhaps the wrong time. I never felt like I fit in. Always felt like an outcast in America. To each their own, but I just don’t find anything admirable or particularly enjoyable about the way a lot of Americans go about their lives.
I’m now much happier in a place where the culture, expectations, work/life balance, and overall lifestyle is more attuned to me. I’m able to be the real me over here. It’s very freeing. Not for everyone, of course. But I love it.
I guess I executed my own “escape from affluenza”, although I never really suffered from this ridiculous disease in the first place (other than perhaps a year or two in my college years).
Best wishes!
Visited Thailand in 2013 and totally get what you mean, the people are very laid back and friendly. I loved everything about the place.
Not a massive City dweller myself so would probably go for a smaller provincial town if we ever moved there, but with loads of family and friends around where I currently live I am pretty sure this will never happen. Maybe a bit of slow travel when FI is the order of the day and explore a few places around SE Asia!
Thanks!
FIRE,
Slow travel around SE Asia would be great. I’m sure I’ll see more of SE Asia over time. It’s easy to slow travel around this region thanks to the low costs and well-developed travel infrastructure. 🙂
Cheers!