I recently spent about a week in Bangkok with Oh.
We were there to celebrate what a wonderful year 2018 has been, as well as to welcome 2019 with open arms.
It was a lot of fun. We had an amazing time!
Oh and I ate our way across the city and saw a good chunk of central Bangkok.
Although Oh was excited about the malls and legendary shopping that Bangkok offers, I actually wanted to explore the city from a different perspective.
Specifically, I wanted to see if I could one day see myself moving there to live. Maybe I’m weird, but I never visit places with a tourist mindset. I always go with a livability mindset. I walk around and judge things as a prospective resident. My brain works in a very analytical and contemplative way, so I can’t help it.
There was a simple question I wanted to answer while we were there.
Could I live in Bangkok?
To answer that question, I’m first going to share what I loved about the city.
And then I’m going to talk about what I didn’t love in Part 2.
This conversation will be occurring within the backdrop of my experience of living in Chiang Mai, Thailand for the past 1.5 years. So it’s a quasi-comparison here between Bangkok and Chiang Mai for livability from my perspective as an early retiree looking to maximize quality of life while simultaneously minimizing cost of living.
First, let’s get into what’s great about Bangkok…
Public Transportation
Chiang Mai lacks good public transit.
There’s a newer bus system that offers limited service. Otherwise, the car-sharing service Grab works just fine. Songthaews work well in a pinch. Plus, I walk almost everywhere.
So it’s not a big deal, especially considering how compact Chiang Mai is.
However, Bangkok is spread out. Big time.
Fortunately, the city offers pretty solid public transportation. We mostly used the BTS this trip, which is Bangkok’s elevated Skytrain system. But Bangkok also has the MRT, which is their underground subway system.
The BTS tickets are cheap and easy to access. Our trips averaged 40 baht each (per person), or about $1.25.
The trains are clean, modern, and offer cold A/C. And they come frequently. I don’t think we ever waited more than a few minutes for a train, even late at night. The efficiency is impressive.
Plus, the platforms are very nice. Many have a barrier in place. And you have arrows that are designed to show where people will come out, as well as where you should stand (on the side) to enter the train.
This gives you an opportunity to ready your stance.
There’s also a system of buses that are reliable and cheap. We took one bus that was only seven baht per person!
Big-City Amenities And Vibrancy
What really separates Bangkok from Chiang Mai, in my opinion, is the fact that Bangkok has the vibrancy and energy that one would expect from a city of 8 million+ people.
This is apparent as soon as you enter the city.
There’s a skyline that has a significant height, depth, and breadth. You’re aware that you’re in an important capital city right away. It seems to stretch on for many miles, and it looks different depending on where you’re standing and looking.
The view from our hotel pool was particularly stunning.
Because the pool deck area was so big, you could capture the Bangkok skyline from numerous angles.
There’s a sense of magnificence, importance, and glitz that isn’t at all present in Chiang Mai. You get that “center of the universe” feeling that’s only available in a few cities around the world.
Adding to that is the flow of traffic – speaking in terms of both people and cars. The cars are somewhat easy to avoid because of the aforementioned public transportation. Avoiding vehicular traffic should be a goal because it’s terrible. But the people are everywhere. Human traffic is unavoidable.
That flow and energy is probably most pronounced around the Siam area, which is considered the “heart” of Bangkok. It contains and straddles some of Bangkok’s best shopping, restaurants, and entertainment.
I’ve heard of the Siam area being referred to as a “miniature Shibuya”. There are plenty of people moving to and for during the day.
But I’d argue it really comes alive at night.
Bangkok is, of course, known for its malls.
I’m generally as interested in shopping as I am in punching myself in the face, so the malls don’t do a lot for me.
However, they do offer a most welcome respite from the heat. Chiang Mai is a very warm place. But Bangkok is next-level hot. It’s been crowned as the hottest city in the world for a reason.
Because of this, the malls aren’t just malls. Not in Bangkok.
They’re cities with roofs. Enclosed cities. That’s the best way I can describe it.
Walking through Siam Paragon made me feel like I was walking through a mid-sized US city’s downtown. And a very, very luxurious downtown at that.
Restaurants, bowling, movies, shopping. Canals. Car dealerships. An art gallery. Opera theater. Throw in an aquarium while you’re at it. Siam Paragon was unlike anything I’ve ever seen before.
These malls aren’t like what you’ll typically see in the US.
Yet Iconsiam was probably the nicest – and most intense – mall of them all.
There were more than 100 dining options in this place!
Unfortunately, it was so packed with people that we couldn’t eat at any of them. There were hour-long waits at every eatery we went to. And the food area at the bottom was a circus. That’s vibrancy for you.
To get a feel for what I’m talking about, check out the crowd at the new Iconsiam Apple Store – the first official Apple store in Thailand.
As noted earlier, I was more interested in exploring some of Bankgok’s neighborhoods and off-the-beaten-path areas. I didn’t want to see tourist spots.
Fortunately, we had some opportunities to see some of the neighborhoods that tourists don’t typically go to.
One outer neighborhood was On Nut. Yes, On Nut is actually a neighborhood in Bangkok. I’m not making that up.
If I were to ever move to and live in Bangkok, On Nut would probably be my neighborhood of choice. The prices for rentals aren’t that far off from here in central Chiang Mai – although we are comparing a central area to a non-central area.
Regardless, its prime location on the Sukhumvit BTS line (in/around Sukhumvit 77) would make it easy to access everything Bangkok has to offer, without paying high/tourist prices.
One neat area of On Nut was the Habito development. It’s a neighborhood lifestyle mall that sits as the crown jewel and central node of a planned community called “T77”.
There were multiple unique, independent eateries here.
There were two – score! – 24-hour coffee shops.
And there was also a large coworking space called HUBBA-TO. I’ve heard of this place being hyped up by some digital nomads. Like most everything related to digital nomads, though, it’s more hype than reality.
It was a very nice space, but almost 300 baht (for a day pass) just to sit at a table and have the privilege to buy coffee is bonkers. I pay 1/4 of that for a delicious coffee at my favorite shop in Chiang Mai. And CAMP (a beautiful 24-hour coworking space) here in Chiang Mai is free to use. You just have to buy something (which is cheap) in order to access the Wi-Fi. Maybe that’s why HUBBA-TO was empty when I was there.
My favorite neighborhood, though, is definitely Thonglor.
It stretches up and down Sukhumvit 55, off the Thonglo BTS stop. Numerous sois branch off of 55, creating a fairly three-dimensional neighborhood.
Thonglor is simultaneously quirky and serious, laid-back and upscale, frenetic and quiet. I didn’t see anything else quite like it in all of Bangkok. It reminded me just a little bit of the Nimman area of Chiang Mai.
There’s a lot of money in Thonglor, however, which would make it cost prohibitive to live here. The value would suffer because you’re competing against people willing to pay a premium for everything. Seeing Lamborghinis and Aston Martins just chillin’ next to each other is not a scene you see in most places of Bangkok – or anywhere in Chiang Mai.
My favorite place in the whole neighborhood – at least during my limited time exploring the area – was The Commons.
This was a stunning indoor/outdoor food hall that featured phenomenal food and live music in beautiful surroundings. I mean that both in the sense of the architecture and the people. Literally, I felt like I was surrounded by models. Oh recognized a few Thai celebrities here.
I don’t know what this place would be comparable to. Maybe Chelsea Market in NYC. Or maybe the Time Out Markets that are spreading from Lisbon.
Anyway, it was great.
One other area of urban vibrancy that Bangkok kills Chiang Mai in is urban parks.
While Chiang Mai is clearly superior in terms of overall nature, I actually prefer urban parks more. It’s like comparing Central Park to Yosemite. I’m not saying one is better than the other, but they are very different.
We visited Lumphini Park around dusk during our first night in the city. It’s a 142-acre urban park that was really stunning and dynamic.
What was particularly shocking to me was seeing the number of people exercising in the park. I’ve been to some large urban parks in the US, but I’ve never seen anything like this. Thousands of people jogging, stretching, doing yoga, and even engaging in group aerobics.
I wasn’t able to get a good picture of the scene because it was getting dark. And there were frankly way too many people exercising to give you a fair idea of the scale. But this video does a decent job of showing a very small fraction of what I’m talking about.
I badly wanted to visit Benjasiri Park, but we couldn’t make it. I was able to catch sunset in Lumphini, though.
Another area where I think Bangkok definitely beats Chiang Mai is in overall culture and things to do.
There were museums, art exhibitions, concert halls, and live music venues all over.
Chiang Mai has plenty of culture. It’s extremely dynamic for a city of its size. Punches way above its weight across the board. But Bangkok simply operates on a scale that’s leagues beyond that of Chiang Mai, as one would expect.
Both cities obviously have the local Thai culture in spades. That includes temples galore.
But I experience culture through the eyes of a Western expat.
Chiang Mai’s culture, in my experience, is centered more around independent coffee shops, veganism, backpackers, digital nomads, entrepreneurship, and nature. It operates like a very large town.
Bangkok, from what I can see, is really the total opposite of that. It’s a massive, world-class city. There’s the aforementioned entertainment/culture options, but I think the city primarily hinges around three facets: dining, shopping, and nightlife. The nightlife in particular is world-famous (or infamous), although it’s not really my thing.
International Food
Bangkok has amazing international food options. Much greater both in quantity and quality than what we have in Chiang Mai. This would be expected. It’s one of my favorite things about the city.
The food at The Commons, for instance, was delicious. I had – I’m not lying here – the best chicken sandwich of my life at one of the food vendors. They call themselves Fowlmouth. I thought that was such a catchy name for a chicken joint.
I also had the misfortune of trying to eat food at Iconsiam, as noted earlier. The place was insanely busy, so that was out.
We instead had pastries for (late) brunch at one of the outdoor terraces. The view was beautiful, especially with Oh there. And the pastries from Paul, a French bakery, were the best I’ve ever had. Bar none. The almond croissant is something dreams are made of.
There are numerous Western chains and options available in Bangkok that don’t even exist in Chiang Mai. The list stretches way beyond what I could get into here.
So if one prefers more international options, Bangkok crushes Chiang Mai. They’re in different universes.
That all said, I actually think the Thai food is better in Chiang Mai. It’s cheaper, more accessible, and more (in my opinion) delicious. I hate to generalize about this. I’ve eaten so much more food in Chiang Mai than Bangkok. But I’m just comparing the two based on my experience thus far.
I found the same dishes to be 10% to 30% more money in Bangkok.
The Thai food in Bangkok is also saltier, while I taste a more subtle sweetness to the food from the north. It’s a personal preference, but I simply enjoy the dishes in Chiang Mai more.
Plus, street food and small, open-air markets are all over in Chiang Mai. Not so in Bangkok after the ever-changing “ban” on street food. I don’t know the current status of that whole situation, but I can say that we found it difficult to find concentrated street food areas and hole-in-the-wall markets in Bangkok. We ate almost solely at restaurants and food courts. Oh lived in Bangkok for 10 years, and I know the city decently well, so it’s not like we were flying blind.
So there’s a lot to like about Bangkok.
But there are also a few things that I didn’t care for…
Conclusion
Stay tuned. I’m going to release the second part of this short series on Thursday, which will go over some drawbacks to living in Bangkok. I’ll also conclude things with my final thoughts on living my FIRE lifestyle in the City of Angels.
What do you think? Ever been to Bangkok? What did you think? Been to Chiang Mai? Have you had an opportunity to compare these cities? Which city seems preferable to you?
Thanks for reading.
P.S. If you’re interested in becoming financially free, which could allow you to live anywhere, check out some phenomenal resources I personally used on my way to becoming financially free at 33!
This is a great article and different from the usual you post, I feel Iike I was there, I can’t wait for part 2. Thank you.
Anonymous,
Glad you enjoyed it. 🙂
Stay tuned for the second part. Coming Thursday!
Best regards.
Why I couldn’t stay there (or any other large city in SEA) is the low air quality.
Anonymous,
Yeah, I hear you. Big cities in general aren’t great for fresh air. That’s kind of something you know going in. Some US cities have some smog issues – LA comes to mind. But I think some of the big Asian cities are worse, due to a number of dynamics. It didn’t bother me at all while we were there, but I understand it oscillates a bit.
Cheers!
I was just staying on Thong Lor last month for a few days and loved it. The pollution and traffic was a bit much to take.
👁 ❤️ 🇹🇭
-Mike
Mike,
You’ve been living in Bangkok for many years, no? Did you just visit Thong Lor for the first time recently? I was under the impression you are (or were) located pretty centrally.
The air didn’t really bother me while we were there, but that traffic is no joke! Fortunately, the BTS makes it easy to avoid it almost altogether.
Best regards.
You are correct. I lived near Asoke intersection for a decade and while I would go to Thonglor being based there had a different vibe, and there are many new restaurants, eateries and shops that have recently popped up. Staying proximate made it easier to walk or take a motorcycle taxi to buzz around. That and I’d been out of the country for many months so it was a nice treat to come back.
Hi Jason,
Greetings from down South!!
Hahaha like the commuter stance pic, looks like you had a good
time in Bangkok. Like you I’m always assessing if a place is
live-able.
This first week here in Central Phuket we’ve mainly been hanging out at
a deserted Rawai Beach further south and today lying on a hammock at the
Three Monkeys restaurant nearby, staring up at the trees and contemplating life.
Down here is pretty much a scooter-based lifestyle in all honesty. I’ve loved
becoming re-acquainted with 2 wheels filtering through traffic queues and
bumbling along with my Thai brethren, all very laid back.
You can get Grab taxi’s here but they’re pretty expensive and it’s just paying a lot of
money to sit in hot traffic for a couple of hours so we never saw the point.
Anyways, more deserted (i.e. not Patong) beaches to explore..
Regards,
DN
DN,
I’ve never been big on getting around on two wheels. It’s dangerous, and you’re exposed to the elements. I know Thailand was either #1 or #2 for per capita road deaths not too long ago. A motorbike doesn’t strike me as a very smart way to get around, but I’ve fortunately been able to set my life up in a way that doesn’t require one. If I were living in more remote parts of Thailand (or even more remote parts of Chiang Mai), it’d be awfully hard to get around without some form of transportation.
Enjoy Phuket!!
Best wishes.
Great read. That’s more than I know about Bangkok.
It’s so huge and spread out. When I’m there, I just visit families and go see a few famous sites. I should check out Thong Lor next time. It sounds neat.
But Bangkok is too big and busy for me. I’d rather visit once in a while and live elsewhere.
Looking forward to part 2.
Joe,
It’s more than a lot of people probably know about Bangkok, other than people who live there. I’m kind of weird in how I go about analyzing and researching cities. 😂
I’m excited to publish Part 2 Thursday. It’s all done and ready to go!
Thanks for dropping by.
Best regards.
Good review (part 1) about bangkok.
Here is something to think..
“Notable, too, is that Bangkok, Berlin, Dublin, London, Melbourne, New York, Singapore and Tokyo fared slightly better than Toronto and Vancouver in housing affordability, sitting a group deemed the “second-least” affordable.”
SD,
Hmm. Don’t really know what you’re talking about, nor am I sure what it has to do with what I wrote here.
Housing costs in Bangkok would be nowhere near as expensive as any of those other cities. Good luck trying to get a fully-furnished, beautiful, one-bedroom condo in NYC or London for $500/month.
Cheers!
I think my dream city if I were to move overseas would be Osaka–a big but not Tokyo-large Japanese town. Unfortunately, it seems like Japan is priced relatively comparably to the US, so any FIRE position would likely be fairly rural. I still may make an effort to move there for six months-one year when my kids are elementary-school age. I suspect the same FIRE principals that apply in the US apply to developed Asia, as well.
Charles,
Best of luck with checking out Osaka. Sounds really neat.
Tokyo is definitely on my list of cities for short-term living during the springtime.
Best regards.
Jason, you have to check out Pattaya Beach next. Parks, food, transportation and decent price long term rentals is amazing. When you visit make sure you get a rental on the baht bus route. In Bangkok you pay a premium to be near the BTS line.
Bill,
Definitely gonna check Pattaya out. Probably later this year.
I originally kind of ruled it out right away as place to move to because of the reputation it has regarding nightlife. Now that I actually live in Thailand, however, I’ve realized it’s not exactly like people paint it out to be. Just like with the whole “digital nomad” thing here in Chiang Mai, I’m now learning that the nightlife situation there is blown way out of proportion. People tend to exaggerate things. It’d be somewhat akin to thinking Las Vegas is nothing but the strip, although the scale differences make that a slightly less analogous comparison.
Looking forward to seeing it with my own eyes. The project they did down there with the beach turned out nice. And you’ve got Koh Larn right there. Koh Samet isn’t far. I like the baht bus system. And the COL isn’t terribly higher than here in CM. Seems like you could get a lot of what you get here, except you can throw in the ocean/beach on top of it. Plus, you’re only a two-hour bus ride from BKK. A lot cheaper and easier to visit BKK than flying there from CM.
Cheers!
A lot more to do in Pattaya also. Chiang Mai got old to me after about the 3rd 21 day trip there. Plus I got tired of all the smog from China that Chiang Mai receives.
Bill,
I don’t think I’d say that Pattaya has a lot more to do. Not from what I’ve seen and heard. Comes down to what you enjoy doing. If you’re into the nightlife, Pattaya will obviously slaughter Chiang Mai. That’s not my thing, though. I do think Pattaya would give you a lot of what Chiang Mai can, along with the coast thrown in. I certainly wouldn’t pass up a beach, all else equal.
I’m planning to check it out soon. Probably later this year. I’d really like to see it with my own eyes and experience it for myself, because I approach and think about things very differently from most people. I’ve learned to not trust other people’s opinions on just about everything. A lot of people exaggerate and make things up.
Speaking of exaggeration, the air quality doesn’t bother me at all here. And the burning season would have nothing to do with China. The smog in Bangkok is substantially worse than in Chiang Mai. They’re actually shutting down schools in Bangkok as we speak due to smog.
Cheers!
I was told by a local the smog is from the Chinese rice farms. Due to work I have to vacation March/April each year. Last time I was there was April 2014 and it was horrible trying to breathe. That is when I started going to Pattaya or Cebu Subic or Cape Town instead.
Bill,
First I’ve ever heard of it. Bangkok’s problems seem to be of Bangkok’s doing. Nothing I’ve read or heard about regarding the topic has mentioned Chinese rice farms. That’d be a hell of a distance to cover. I guess I’d be thinking about vehicle emissions, construction, factories, 8+ million people’s daily consumption, and Thailand’s own burning of crops before looking at China. But you’re free to believe whatever you’d like.
Nonetheless, the cause of Bangkok’s smog, which is far worse right at this moment than what it averages, is veering way off topic.
Cheers!
Hi Jason, great post about your travel to Bangkok. It looks like a great and modern city. I felt like you were giving me a tour around. The train is pretty modern, honestly I wasn’t expecting to see how beautiful everything looks. You might consider moving there, obviously it will be more expensive. I will be waiting for part 2. Take care my friend. Omar
Omar,
Thanks. Glad you enjoyed the tour! 🙂
Bangkok does have its rundown areas, like any city. And there are drawbacks to living there (which I’ll be going over tomorrow). However, it’s a very nice, modern, dynamic, vibrant, and 24/7 city with a lot of amenities and energy. It’s the most visited city in the world, blowing places like NYC and Paris out of the water. The big city I’m most familiar with in the US is Chicago. Well, Bangkok makes Chicago look like a sleepy village. The only thing like Bangkok in the US is NYC. So it just depends on personal preference regarding intensity.
Best wishes!
Good and enjoyable read.
Matt,
Thanks so much!
Cheers.
Looks very interesting. I hope you enjoy your time over there. Cheers
BHL,
We definitely enjoyed!
Cheers.
This post makes me want to visit Bangkok. Like you, I like to avoid tourist traps in favor of exploring where the locals hang out and enjoy themselves. That being said, I do like to checj out historical and culturally significant places. I look forward to the next post!
AJ,
Bangkok is great. It’s next-level intense, though, so keep that in mind.
I didn’t particularly enjoy myself around the tourist spots, but hanging out in the ‘hoods was really neat for me. I approach it that way whenever I think about visiting somewhere. If I were to pop over to, say, Chicago for a week or two, I’d get a room in Lincoln Park or something and check out Lincoln Park (the actual park), Stan’s, the local coffee shops, Small Cheval down in Old Town, a Cubs game at Wrigley, etc. I approach “tourism” like a long-term resident. I’m weird. 😂
The next part comes out tomorrow. Keep an eye out!
Best wishes.
Enjoyed the article on Bangkok it was different from other articles. Can’t wait till part 2 comes out. I wouldn’t mind visit to Bangkok, Chiang Mai or maybe Pattaya they seam to be a nice place to visit and maybe live. I just have to talk my wife into it. It looked like you and OH had a good time in Bangkok. Cheers to both of you, and may each day be better than the last.
Michael,
Hey, I do hope you get a chance to visit these places (among many other places). It’s a big world out there. Lots to see and do.
Thanks for the kind words. Really appreciate that! 🙂
Best regards.
Hi Jason,
Great article!! I just wish you wrote it 3 weeks ago lol as I was just in Thailand for my honeymoon. We were able to explore 5 cities in Thailand, including Bangkok and Chiang Mai. I couldn’t believe how different and distinctive each city was. Coming from NYC, I 100% see the comparisons Bangkok has with NYC (granted Bangkok is much, much cheaper). We did a bunch of the touristy things but we also had a local guide who was able to show us some of the more local hang outs and I must say we were quite impressed.
My wife and I loved Chiang Mai and I could definitely see why you chose to settle down there. It is a beautiful city with a lot of history and culture. We really liked the Nimman area and the night market. We went to the night market all 3 nights we were there.
The other cities we visited were Kanchanaburi, Koh Samui and Phuket. I highly recommend visiting Kanchanaburi, especially if you are a history buff like I am (or movie buff). As it is where the bridge over the River Khwae is and the famous movie about it. It also has some amazing national parks with beautiful waterfalls.
Looking forward to part 2 of your article, although I think I know what you are going to write about already. Lol
Best,
DGIunder25
DGI,
Yeah, absolutely. They’re totally different places. Chiang Mai and Bangkok might both be in Thailand, but day-to-day life is going to be very distinct in many ways between the two places. It’d be like comparing NYC to Portland, OR. Really comes down to one’s priorities and value system. Bangkok has some unique advantages that Chiang Mai lacks, while CM obviously excels in areas where Bangkok struggles. It all depends on what you want and need.
I’ll be releasing the second part very shortly. Hope you enjoy it!
Cheers.
Jason,
Nice writeup. I live on Thong Lor Soi 18 (kind of close to Commons), and agree with what you say about the neighborhood. The only thing I don’t like is my place is somewhat far from the BTS – about 1.5 km. 40 baht taxi ride, 7 baht street bus, or 20 baht moto taxi (the most exciting 20 baht I ever spend in my life. 555) to get to the BTS, so there are alternatives.
I have not spent much time at all in Chiang Mai, so would like to visit there someday for an extended period.
Looking forward to reading Part 2!!
Jennifer
Jennifer,
Absolutely. Totally agree with you. That’s the big drawback of living in the center of Thong Lor. I think the best way to approach that area would be to use it as more of an entertainment hub than a place to live, primarily because of the BTS distance, neighborhood COL, and noise. It’s an awesome area. Really loved it. But I’m not sure it would be best to live there. I guess it might come down to how often you need to jump on the BTS.
Thanks for adding that!
Best wishes.