I enjoyed reading a post put together by Joe from Retire By 40 not too long ago.
He posed a simple question.
You could argue it either way.
I can see how someone would believe it’s a fad. I can also understand how someone would think it’s not. Joe thinks it’s a fad.
One major aspect of Joe’s argument is that it takes an intense and lasting drive to get to FIRE, which is something that most people simply aren’t capable of sustaining over a very long period of time.
Here’s what he said:
For a normal person, FIRE is virtually impossible. The execution phase is much longer than the planning phase. Most people won’t last.
Do I think Joe is right about that?
Absolutely!
In fact, I’ve been pretty vocal about this.
FIRE is not for everyone. In my opinion, it’s not even for most people.
I think there’s a very small percentage of the population that will understand FIRE, genuinely desire FIRE, be willing to do what it takes to achieve FIRE, and then actually thrive in a post-FIRE life. You might be able to get one or two of those things down. But doing all of it, over the course of the rest of your life, is extremely difficult. It’s virtually impossible, as Joe said.
But I’d like to take this discussion to another level.
I want to pose another question that piggybacks onto Joe’s question.
Is FIRE a paradox?
Those Who Are Most Likely To Achieve FIRE Are Least Likely To Need The Money
I’m looking for someone.
They’re a unicorn.
I say that because I haven’t yet met them.
In all of my time writing about FIRE, saving and investing my way toward FIRE, coaching clients, living this lifestyle, and meeting like-minded people all from all over the world, I have yet to meet a single young person who lives solely off of passive investment income.
Over the course of almost 10 years now, I have yet to meet someone in their 30s or even 40s who is FIRE and not earning a single dime of income from a hobby or some type of work.
Why?
It’s simple.
The exact type of person who’s driven and disciplined enough to actually do what it takes to achieve FIRE and then thrive in their post-FIRE life, is the exact type of person who will see the value in what I believe are the “three P’s” of enjoying FIRE: passions, productivity, and progress.
Said another way, the people most likely to achieve FIRE are the same people who are most likely to continue working in some capacity past the point of FIRE. These people need constant problems to solve and challenges to overcome. FIRE is in and of itself a very exciting problem to solve. But once you solve it, you’re not going to be content just sitting around for the next 30 years.
This is why, in my opinion and personal experience, the early retirement math is moot.
A perfect example of this is Warren Buffett.
The guy is a billionaire many times over. Yet he continues to work. A lot.
As he puts it, he “tap dances to work”.
Of course he does. He loves what he does and does what he loves. Buffett doesn’t show up to Berkshire Hathaway headquarters in Omaha every morning because he has to. He does it because wants to.
And that’s the crux of the matter here. Working because you want to is a world apart from working because you have to. And a job is very different from work.
I also “tap dance to work”.
For example, I’m smiling every single afternoon as I briskly walk to my favorite coffee shop so that I can drink a delicious caramel macchiato, consume and produce content, and progress forward with productive passions.
See, having money isn’t about not working. FIRE isn’t about not working.
This lifestyle is about living life on your terms, which, for the type of person who’s driven and disciplined enough to achieve FIRE, means doing meaningful and passionate work that adds value to one’s life and the world around them. That value usually comes back around in the form of some kind of monetization.
FIRE is a platform that allows someone to “right-size” work and avoid jobs. You can live life on your terms because you can bankroll the whole thing. You become your own boss because you are a boss. For me, it’s about doing what I want, when I want, where I want, why I want, with whom I want.
FIRE is absolutely, certainly, positively not about unlimited leisure.
Look, leisure is fun. It’s great. I enjoy the hell out of some relaxation. But you can’t sit around all day for the rest of your life. You’re going to be bored out of your mind.
This is especially true for the people who go after FIRE. We see leisure as something that’s most enjoyable when it’s used as a getaway from work. Otherwise, leisure loses its meaning and value.
Those Who Are Least Likely To Achieve FIRE Are Most Likely To Need The Money
Likewise, it should go without saying that the type of person who’s not suited to achieve FIRE will probably always struggle a bit with money and never go on to become wealthy enough to have a significant amount of independence in their lives.
The very type of person who lacks the self-discipline and ability to delay gratification in order to achieve FIRE, is the very type of person who will always spend at or above their means.
It’s pretty straightforward logic here. I see it as an obvious catch-22.
These people don’t institute the good habits and best practices in their lives that allow them to build wealth and generate passive income. They live the wrong lifestyles for building wealth. Thus, they never really get ahead in financial terms.
Now, I’m not saying you’re going to be dirt poor if you don’t want or achieve FIRE.
Furthermore, I’m not slamming anyone’s character here. I don’t see any kind of “moral high ground” with FIRE. There’s nothing about FIRE that is more virtuous than non-FIRE. If you want to spend your money, go for it. I don’t believe you’re a terrible person if you fail to save and invest a good portion of your money. I see no reason to be dogmatic about FIRE (or anything else).
Rather, I’m simply stating what I think is pretty salient about FIRE.
The people who lack the characteristics that are necessary to achieve FIRE (which is honestly most people in this world) are the very same people who most need the financial resources that FIRE provides.
FIRE Is A Paradox
In my view, FIRE is thus a paradox.
One could even say that great wealth and success is a paradox.
I’ve never met a successful person who wasn’t incredibly driven, disciplined, intelligent, and passionate. And I’ve never met an incredibly driven, disciplined, intelligent, and passionate person who wasn’t successful.
I don’t believe that anyone who achieves FIRE will actually end up needing much the money they save and invest in order to become FIRE. In fact, the odds seem rather good that most of one’s wealth will be built after the job is left in the dust.
I can use myself as a pretty good case study here.
Back when I wasn’t driven, disciplined, and passionate, I was poor and unhappy. I had no control over my time and life. FIRE was nothing more than a pipe dream.
But once I started developing the drive, discipline, and passion toward gaining autonomy in my life, everything turned around. I instituted the good habits and best practices toward that end, and it all became an inevitability at that point. It was only a matter of time before I achieved FIRE once I corrected my thought and action processes.
FIRE went from a pipe dream to a real dream. And then I started living that dream.
Furthermore, I quit my job in 2014. It was the day after my 32nd birthday. My FIRE Fund was worth about $160,000 back then.
Well, it’s now valued at almost $400,000.
And even though I gave up millions of dollars by quitting my job so young, I might end up becoming a billionaire anyway.
Indeed, I have the rest of my life to continue building wealth and passive income, which means I’ll very likely end up with many times over the $160k I was able to amass while I still had a job.
I haven’t actually needed the dividend income my portfolio generates on my behalf. But knowing that it’s there gives me the courage and autonomy necessary to pursue meaningful work and right-size everything in my life. I might not have a huge concern for making a ton of money with my passions, but I end up doing pretty okay anyway because of the type of person I became on my way to FIRE.
It’s not about how much money you have; what matters is who you are and what you value. Poor values, poor wallet.
This is why lottery winners are more likely to declare bankruptcy within 3-5 years than the average American.
And it’s also why Warren Buffett continues to work way past the point of financial necessity.
All that said, this seems to be a gift and a curse. The gift is the mindset. The curse is also the mindset. Contentment can be difficult to find when you’re driven. This is why some of the people I’ve talked to that achieve FIRE never leave their jobs, or they go back to their jobs. Some genuinely like(d) their jobs. That’s fine. Some end up seeing their jobs as the most obvious challenge to continue solving.
Conclusion
FIRE might be a fad. Maybe it’s not.
Either way, I’d argue it certainly is a paradox.
Those who get obsessed over the 4% SWR, spreadsheets, dividend growth rates, and the intricacies and minutiae of all of the finances are totally missing the point.
Becoming extremely wealthy is, in my view, an inevitability if you live the appropriate type of lifestyle. This lifestyle is built out of a particular mindset. You’ll have good habits that are repeated over and over again. There’s a sense of purpose that drives one forward. That’s where all the good stuff is at. And it’ll serve you well for the rest of your life.
The money is a byproduct of all of that.
And so those that achieve FIRE will be the least likely to constantly require the financial resources that underpin their FIRE. They’ll be too busy continuing to make more money, which will be added atop their compounding snowball.
I think the biggest challenge for FIRE achievers is making the most of that opportunity and accurately “right-sizing” everything in their lives. Figuring out money is pretty easy. Figuring out life is much more difficult.
What do you think? Is FIRE a paradox? Why or why not?
Thanks for reading.
P.S. If you’d like to achieve FIRE for yourself, make sure to check out some awesome tools and services I personally used on my way to becoming financially free at 33!
Firstly, to the question “Is the FIRE movement a fad?” I’m not sure I’d use the word fad but I’m with you that most people will never achieve it as it generally takes more time than people are prepared to invest. As somebody who has currently FIRE’d I know that it takes real determination with a capital D to reach FIRE.
I also think the word FIRE is a little overused these days with the FI and the RE bits being very separate IMHO. FI for me is having what you describe – the ability to work on passionate projects without beholden to a pay check. For me RE is more about living off of passive investments.
Let me demonstrate with my example:
– It took me 8.7 years to go from zero to having enough passive investments that I never needed to work for money again. At that point I definitely called myself FI. However I didn’t leave my job as I wasn’t psychologically ready.
– At the 11 year point, age 46, I did RE and have been living off those passive investments 100%.
– Having had some fantastic experiences, but including a particularly brutal decompression, I’m now at the point where it looks like I’m going to return to work. It won’t be the same as previously because while it will still be in a field I very much enjoy it won’t carry the stresses and bullsh*t of what my pre-FI work did. I won’t call this FIRE though – it’s very much FI. I now have options to do what I want when I want.
RIT,
Yeah, it’s tough on the fad question. I think I responded to Joe over at his site in the same way. I don’t think I’d call it a “fad”, per se. Rather, I just see it as a niche lifestyle choice that was never destined to be mainstream. It’s too much for most people. Frankly, I’m OK with that. I don’t need mainstream validation. I’m just fine with living atypically.
FI and RE might not be one and the same exactly, but it’s a moot point. The FI, which is pretty much required for the RE, is all the same the difficult part of the equation. And most people who are FI, at a very young age (hence the E in RE), will continue to work in some capacity well past the point of financial necessity. I’ve never met someone driven enough to go FI/RE who was then perfectly content to never again work on hobbies or anything else that ends up being monetized quite easily. The whole blog space (including you and I) is filled with these people, because… drum roll… blogging is in and of itself a monetized form of work. I absolutely love doing what I do. But it does speak on the paradox of this. If I didn’t have the writing (I won’t be writing like this forever), I’d simply be more heavily involved in another passion that would keep me productively progressing forward (and probably making a little money along the way).
Cheers!
I feel like I´m a paradox. I have the delayed gratification nailed down, saved 50 – 70% of paychecks since 2011, but I´m not at all extremely driven or passionate. I have many interests, but I don´t find the time for any of them, sadly. And I certainly don´t look for ways to monetize them. I fantasize about doing all the things that interests me when I finally get the time (FI). But maybe I will just continue to slouch in an even bigger way. That is my fear.
Tom,
I know exactly what you mean. This is actually a fairly common issue with my coaching clients.
In fact, I just mentioned this catch-22 in my last post:
“However, some people don’t have passions because they’re too busy with their jobs. So it’s a bit of a catch-22. They don’t have time to figure out who they really are because they’re too busy at work; they’re too busy at work to have the time to figure out who they really are.”
Unfortunately, too many people chasing after FIRE spend most of their time thinking/worrying about money, when they should be allocating a lot more of their resources toward building out their post-FIRE lifestyle.
Make sure you read that article, if you haven’t already:
https://www.mrfreeat33.com/the-three-ps-of-enjoying-fire/
Best regards.
Hi Jason I retired at 44, 14 years ago long before I heard the term FIRE. I think FIRE has been around for a loooong time many back in the day retired early ( think Rockefeller, Carnegie, Aston ect ect ect ) however I do believe that many did go on to achieve other goals. Like Buffett, Munger, Gates and other modern day titans an enjoyment of life after FIRE givea them meaning of life.
I have recently started investing again. Something I truly enjoy and will be a lasting activity to the end. Guess its a hobby 🙂 I dont really ” need ” the money and have had many thoughts about what I will do with it 20 – 30 years from now. The process is fun for me and I would say I spend about an hour or two a day looking at new investment possibilities.
I will say that in the 14 years I have been FIRE I have only met one other person who retired early and just 2 years ago when he turned 54.
Going forward into ageing life I can see myself as a ” miniature ” version of Rockefeller or Carnegie and spend time donating time and funds were I feel they will be best used.
Great topic hope all is well 🙂
Bob
Bob,
Sounds like you’re enjoying life. That’s what it’s all about! 🙂
Cheers.
I think having the financial freedom to say ‘I quit’ at anytime is a big advantage for dealing with everyday hassles (I should say ‘challenges’ of course … ) at the office. I also think that being able to move yourself into a position of independence provides you with a certain selfconfodence/flair/attitude/whatever that gives one a strong(er) position at the work floor – as if it ‘radiates’ so to speak. And of course when you feel you are in a string position, feel valued, AND are in the position to leave at any time because your financial buffer will prevent you from starving, this of course helps in liking your job.
Enough,
Yeah, I totally agree with you. I’m not sure how it relates to the article, but I do agree that FIRE gives one an incredible amount of flexibility and autonomy. I couldn’t imagine living without FIRE. It’s worth what it takes. 🙂
Best regards.
Hi Jason,
I also read the other article and I was thinking of myself. To reach FI is difficult, to reach FIRE – the part of living on your terms is a personal thing. I assume, there are some people outside, which are FI, work normal after reaching FI and they are living on their own terms. They haven´t retired in a classical way (simple not working and instead doing a lot of leisure stuff), but for some it may be retiring. I don´t know, it is individual.
I think nearly everyone who chased for the first step FI had one or more crisis. For me I had two situations. The first one was just behind an euphoric phase when I reached 100.000 EURO and after this to start „new“ to get to the 200.000 EUROs. This was not too dangerous for me and this crisis disappeared fast. The second one was far more dangerous for me. This was between 180.000 – 200.000 EUROs. I can remeber that I was thinking: I saved for such a long time, it´s a nice amount of money but even after saving for years I´m not able to buy with this money a house or even a flat I would like to. On the other side I got around 500 EUROs dividends/month in average, which also was no big deal. OK, nice money but nothing what is changing my life. This was a harsh time for me and I also thought: Even if I get let´s say 1.500 EURO/month it is not the sum I want to live with. To be honest, at that time I was short before ending it. I assume, I´m not alone with that and when you are looking at your familiy and own friends there is no one doing the same like you do. The question simple was: Why am I doing this for years? And if I´m doing this, why only for a monthly amount what you get in a low-middleclass job? This was a struggle of around 6 months for me and afterwards I said to me: Just go further and see, where you will get. The best thing was, that I didn´t stop saving in this six months. On the other side there was a possibility that I quit. And I assume, this is happening a lot of people. So this is a key that most people will fail on the FI and they never get to the RE. I think, more than 80% won´t make it. And there was a high chance for me to be within the 80%.
My second problem was: When will I be FI and when will I go RE? I was very strict to me and claimed me FI when I reached a small bit over 100% of my costs.I didn´t have any experience with it and I saw always the problem: OK, when I have all expenses passive, what will happen if something extraordinary happens? After now more then a year RE I know, that thinking to strict about everything was simple not necessary. I can remember 3 months after quitting my job I got an offer with much more money I had before and so many new projects that I can´t do them all. I did only small projects which I liked, worked on 2 or 3 days/week and in summer I didn´t work anything. I had more than enough money because like you wrote you always earn some active money. I even buy from time to time some new shares now from the „too much money“. The difference is, that you only do the thing you are interested in and to your own terms. What I have learned was, that changing everything with 70 or even 60% passive income has worked out the same and you suffer nothing.
I know I still have to learn how to handel this RE. This is nothing you can do in one month, even with a lot of interests. You are far away from living the normal working live and if you are still living in your old society this is quite difficult. Your friends and your familiy see, that you don´t work every day and this is not common. Everything what is not common will bring you a lot of questions. You must learn to handle all this and this is the second part, where a lot of people may be fail. Your change to Chiang Mai is a good strategy to avoid all this and learn to handle the situation better. I´m not sure if this is a fact, but I can imagine it makes it easier.
So this is not a common lifestyle. I see it every day with my new life. But on the other side my experience is that it will get better and better and I don´t want to change it anymore. Now its simple my new lifestyle and I assume that it will change the next years a lot to different things I want to do which I can´t imagine with a normal work life or even after a year of FIRE.
Regards Oliver
Oliver,
Thanks for sharing! 🙂
Rome wasn’t built in a day. There’s time to engage in most things you want to engage in, but not all of it can be done in one day. I’ve learned, over time, to have balance in my life and right-size everything. But I think this takes time and experience. You just feel things out and get to know yourself. It’s something that builds day by day. Part of the problem is a lack of self-awareness, which is compounded by being busy with one’s job and daily responsibilities.
The person who’s driven enough to achieve FIRE, will no doubt be driven enough to find that balance, continue to progress forward as a human being, and work on their passions. And they’ll no doubt make a few bucks here and there way after FIRE is achieved. 🙂
Best wishes.
Hi Oliver,
How long did it take to reach the FI number? Did you invest in Dividend stocks or simply index funds?
I am working as an Air Traffic Controller. High stress, high salary. But I love it. I am tap dancing to work whenever I have to go. It is a kind of stress that is 100% different from anything else I have experienced before (I got into this at 26, had stable jobs before!). I do not have to deal with cubicle bullsh.t, or boring meetings (apart from operational ones, thats reasonable). If the conditions stay like this I could imagine staying in the workforce after meeting my FIRE goal, because it is like a dream come true. I am proud of my job!
Maybe at some point I would go into teaching this, or in case my job will be automated to some form of contract based expert advisory. At least 14 more years however to reach my FIRE number. Press F to pay respects, lol.
At the moment I am saving approximately 65% of my income, however that includes mortgage principal. Unfortunately only a tiny fraction (10%) is going towards a stock portfolio atm, since I have debt, and that has priority. But 10% is more than nothing, and I just have to invest something at least for my own sanity and mental health.
The mortgage is paid off in 9 more years (33% extra payments every month), and all other debts and obligations by december 2019. It feels like FOREVER.
@Jason:
Back when you were still working, how did you handle “sinking funds”? A large part (20%) of my monthly “savings budget” are items that are basically consumer goods, amortized monthly.
For example: I took all home appliances (AC, fridge, microwave, etc). I added up how much it would be to replace ALL of them and divided that by 24 months. This is approximately in line with the warranty. Once it is fully funded I can divert that to buying stocks. Same goes for the car (replacing it in 5 years @ 10 years age. Bought used, paid cash.)
How did you do it? Did you just rent and expect the landlord to pony up? I feel like a disproportionally large amount of my income is set aside for something that I know I will need some day (A fridge wont last forever) but simply feels WRONG. On the other hand if I do not have saved up for lets say a car, and I want to replace it, then it is not a debt free, just a debt deferred lifestyle.
What would you do? Invest everything and go barebones, or budget EVERYTHING?
SR,
Well, I’ve never owned a home, nor would I ever want to. And I’ve been mostly car-free since the summer of 2011. Most of my expenses were fairly fixed, or they at least didn’t vary too much. Surprises would invariably pop up. But they were pebbles in the ocean against my battleship. I tracked my expenses for most of the journey to FIRE, which were published over at Dividend Mantra. I still track my expenses and publish them, but it’s a bit different now since I live abroad.
Best regards!
Hi Savingrate,
how long it took is not an easy answer for me. I bought my first shares with 18 years, but after studying I started a company and invested all my money.
After selling my company years later I started to reach for financial independence. It took 9 years from there and I worked as a freelancer to get active income. I invested everything in common shares. I have only a very small amount in a World ETF to look, if this works better. But the profits for my individual shares were higher nearly every year than the ETF.
On the other side ETFs are also valuable for people who don´t want to invest much time in individual companies.
Besides that I focussed on this and never looked for buying a house or a flat. This shortens everything up, because with a house you have besides the mortgages also high costs for living in this house. There are surely some advantages living in an own house, but that was no target for me.
When I read that you like your job in that way, FI is good, but not necessary for you. OK, this can change in the future, nobody knows how everything will develop, but you have a good chance to be happy with your active income. On the other side we will get all older and with 50+ you are not that keen working full time. The companies are not very keen as well to give older people over 55 years a good donated job. But this is in Germany, I don´t know how in the US it is. If you have enough money this doesn´t bother you. Working as freelancer on your conditions (this is what I do from time to time) is much better.
If you are saving 65% of your income only for FIRE, you can find in the web how long this will take.
Regards Oliver
I’m a career consultant, and I don’t think FIRE is a fad. In fact, I would argue it will take over as the primary pursuit for the majority. The essence of FIRE is being in a position where you don’t HAVE to work, but many FIRE proponents still work at things that bring them joy. FIRE proponents are not dependent on a job. The market today is such that there is less job security, so you almost have to pursue FIRE in order to take control of your career path. That is certainly how my work intersects with my interest in FIRE — I see FIRE as a solution for the increasingly volatile job market.
Caroline,
Hmm. I wouldn’t say it’s a fad, per se. But I definitely wouldn’t agree that it’ll “take over as the primary pursuit for the majority.”. The majority of Americans can’t even afford a $1,000 emergency, so FIRE is absolutely out of the question. People in the FIRE space can sometimes operate in this little bubble, as if this is normal or somehow more virtuous than other lifestyles. The other 99% or so of people would obviously disagree. As Joe rightly stated, it’s almost impossible for most ordinary people. It’s quite an extraordinary feat. One that I’m proud of achieving, but I don’t think the majority of people will ever experience it for a variety of reasons.
It’s interesting to witness these opposing viewpoints all the time. Most people in the FIRE space that I’ve talked to will discuss how they lament the fact that nobody understands/supports them or desires the same lifestyle (even among married couples), yet you’ve got some people out there forecasting that everyone will be doing this soon. Really not related to the topic at hand, though.
But feel free to pop over to Joe’s site, since he’s the one who actually asked that question. 🙂
Cheers!
I agree that achieving FIRE is difficult but I still think pursuing FIRE v. achieving FIRE still has a lot of runway. It’s definitely easier to achieve it if you don’t need it (have a high paying job or other source of wealth), hence the paradox, which I agree with, but there’s a similar constraint in traditional finance circles. The 3 legs of the retirement stool are increasingly out of reach for many b/c of the decline of pensions, the uncertainty of social security, and the flat growth of wages. But the difficulty in achieving it doesn’t diminish the validity of the idea of the 3-legged stool. I see the pursuit of FIRE as a reasonable alternative to this.
Maybe i missed it but I would just like to add that even 1/2 of “fire” is just fine as well. For example, if you can’t get to the point where you can fully fund your life with passive income, you could simply work seasonally to supplement it. A lot of work is done remotely now over the internet. You plug in for a few hours and you never have to go to an office.
Maybe work 6 months or part time, and take 3 to 6 months off doing other things, or some comfortable combination of that. I don’t think there really has to be a definitive rule that says FIRE needs to fully fund your life.
Good stuff as always Jason. Your definitely are writing your best content lately.
Paul,
I would agree with that very much. I wrote this article a number of years ago that kinda jibes with that:
https://www.dividendmantra.com/2015/02/freedom-exists-on-a-spectrum/
In my opinion, I think most people should aim for about 50% or so. If they can cover half of their expenses with passive income, that’s a wonderful position to be in. A job you don’t like would probably be unnecessary at that point, especially if you can get creative with both the income and expenses. Get to 50% and then get to doing work you’re passionate about. Since work of some kind is an inevitability for those who are driven enough to be FIRE, the 100% mark isn’t a must. This is especially true when considering the passive income is probably going to grow faster than your expenses anyway. The only argument against something like this is that maybe the person who can only muster up 50% might not find themselves all that driven past that point. But I think even 50% requires a hell of an effort, so the odds of that are low.
Thanks for adding that!
Best regards.
Interest questions. I don’t think it is a fad. That is, the movement is permanent and not temporary. The nature of the standard bearers is they will stick with it until they die.
It is however damn near impossible for the average Joe. I used to try to position my blog as demonstrating an “average” person can reproduce what I did and retire (easily!) by 40. I no longer do that because I figured out how many ‘yeah-but’ responses are out there. Not legitimate excuses. Trivial ones. You have to want it more than you want [shiny new thing]. And most people simply aren’t wired that way. And the ones who are have been brainwashed by the experts on Madison Ave for decades.
Great article. I may steal this idea for a future article of my own (imitation is the highest form of flattery, bro!)
fv,
Agreed on both counts.
I don’t think it’s a fad in the sense that those who desire it and go on to achieve it will always want/have it and espouse it. But I don’t see it as being some kind of mainstream thing, either.
And that’s partly because, as you note, it’s nearly impossible for the average person. It’s just way outside their radar. We’re talking about a low-single-digit percentage of people who can do this and thrive in it after they get it.
Cheers!
Thanks for the mention! I’ve been super busy this month. We moved and I just finished painting and fixing the old place. We’re selling it. Ah, the joy of home ownership. Now, I think you’re right to avoid it. 🙂
I’m planning to write about this paradox at some point too. FI and RE takes 2 different personality types. The people who reached FI aren’t the type to lay back and relax. RE isn’t easy. It takes a certain mindset to do it. I’m still earning income so I’m not 100% RE. My plan is to ratchet way back when I’m 55. That’s in 10 years or so. I’ll let you know how it goes.
Cheers.
Joe,
Hey, my pleasure to mention the piece. I thought it was an interesting topic, which led me down this other rabbit hole. 🙂
I hear what you’re saying there. But I also think you could re-title the article and re-write everything with either FI or RE, yet it would read the same way and make the same point. I just don’t see someone achieving FI at 40, quitting their job (hence, effectively retiring from whatever they were doing), and then just being content to sit around. They’re going to go and do other cool stuff and make a few bucks. It’s simply the nature of the beast. That drive is bit of a gift and a curse.
Thanks for dropping by!
Best wishes.
I would argue that we are experiencing a bit of a bubble in the FIRE movement, much like the Nasdaq in 2000. FIRE is very trendy right now. I think a lot of subscribers to the movement will fall away in time due to the reasons you have laid out. It is hard, takes perseverance, and not many people have that constitution. INTJs are all over it though…
Josh,
Perhaps so. I don’t actually follow things too much, so I’m not exactly sure how big it is or how it’s perceived over in the West. I just know that it was never meant to be a mainstream idea in the first place, so it really has to be judged against where it’s at relative to its potential. I’m impressed with and proud of what it’s all become, at least in terms of what I know about it. In that sense, it’s less of a fad than a lot of people probably thought it’d be. In my view, it’s simply a very niche lifestyle choice for the few people out there who can actually commit to it. And those same people are what make it a paradox.
Cheers!
Just a thought. Somewhere down the road 5-6 years from now, you should do a series for one year where you go back to general employment for a few months and just try out different things. Maybe a new job every few months. Do you think you’ll ever hop back into employment for the hell of it one day?
Ronald,
Hop back into employment, as in a job? No. I don’t see that ever happening.
That’s kind of like asking someone who escaped prison if they’d ever like to go back to “try it out”. 😂
Look, work is great. But a job is usually not. There’s nothing in this world that I’d like to do for 8-10 hours per day, 5-6 days per week, 50 weeks per year, 40 years of my life. And even if you scale it way back to a part-time schedule, there are still many issues to think about (bosses, quotas, workplace drama, being on someone else’s time, etc.). I’ll probably continue to work for many more years. I enjoy that. But I don’t have any idea as to why I’d ever again go get a job. That job mentality really holds people back, in my opinion.
Cheers!