The saga continues.
But it ends here (I think).
So I shared with you guys a minor health affliction that I developed, and I explored that via an article a number of months ago that was also designed to give insight into what it’s like to interact with the healthcare system here in Chiang Mai, Thailand (service, cost, etc.).
Since I explored all of that before with quite a bit of depth, I’ll keep things rather brief today.
I’m sharing some of this information again in order to give you guys further insight on healthcare in Thailand.
One big reason, in my opinion, to relocate abroad is the messy, complicated, and expensive healthcare system in the USA. As such, it’s nice to know what things look like and cost somewhere else.
Furthermore, many people moving abroad are older, meaning they may be more likely to encounter a healthcare system in a foreign country.
It’s my hope that sharing these intimate details of my life are helpful to some of you readers in that regard.
Let’s dig in…
I decided to visit Chiang Mai Ram Hospital yet again, last week, in order to get a second opinion on the varicocele that I’m dealing with.
The reason I did that is, the pain I’m experiencing in my left flank area, which is supposedly referred pain, seems to be excessive.
The process I followed was very similar to what I laid out last time (discussed in the article linked to above).
I walked into the hospital, with no appointment, and asked to speak to a urologist, except I asked for a different urologist this time.
This urologist, fortunately, was far more fluent in English (he basically spoke perfect English) than the last one, and he also seemed to be a bit more concerned with what’s going on (especially seeing as how this was my second visit in a short period of time for this issue).
Whereas the first physical examination was extremely brief, this one was not.
He felt all over my abdominal and groin area, looking for abnormalities, softness, hernias, etc.
Nothing.
We then discussed the possibility of something else causing my flank pain, like a kidney stone.
There’s also the possibility that I might have something called Nutcracker Syndrome, which is a compression of the left renal vein.
All in all, further tests seemed to be warranted since this flank pain is causing me a slight decrease in my quality of life.
He scheduled me for an ultrasound during the morning of the upcoming Saturday (July 28).
I came in, on time, for my appointment at 10:15 a.m.
There was a 10 minute wait, and then they checked my vitals.
I was then quickly sent over to the imaging area, where the ultrasound would be performed.
The ultrasound scan started with my lower stomach area, then slowly moved toward my right flank area, before coming back around to my left flank area. Best I can tell, they scanned my entire lower area from flank to flank.
I was in and out of the imaging area in about 15 minutes flat.
The technician performing the ultrasound was efficient and communicative.
He indicated no abnormalities throughout the procedure, but he said a full report would be issued on my behalf giving me all the details of the scan. He cleaned me up and sent me on my way.
A nurse checked my contact information (phone number, address, and email address) for the report. Cool.
They then shuffled me toward the cashier area, where I paid my bill for the ultrasound:
So the total cost of the ultrasound was 2,060 baht. That’s approximately $60.00 at the current exchange rate. And the entire process lasted about 45 minutes.
This doesn’t, however, include the cost of my second visit with a urologist, which ran another 620 baht (same price as last time).
I received an email from the hospital on Monday morning, which included seven separate images and a full report in PDF.
The report goes into technicalities regarding numerous organs (I’ll spare you guys that), but the final result was that the impression was an unremarkable study.
The good news?
I don’t seem to have anything wrong (other than the varicocele).
The bad news?
It looks like I kind of just have to deal with this pain, as there’s nothing else apparently causing it. It would seem likely at this point that the pain is, indeed, referred pain, especially since it seems have a high correlation with sitting or standing (pain is on when standing and off when sitting).
Surgery is still an option, but that carries costs, risks, and no guarantee that the varicocele won’t return.
I’m probably just going to move on at this point, but I did think it was worthwhile to get the scan done and make sure I didn’t have some kind of internal problem.
And this entire exercise was pretty interesting from the standpoint of getting a feel for what the healthcare system is like over here. Since I’m insuring myself, it’s great to be educated on potential costs. This episode has further reinforced the idea that health insurance is unnecessary for me in my situation.
Things are actually pretty good, all in all.
I invested very little time and money into this, especially relative to what kind of time and money would be necessary for this same process in the States.
And I’m very healthy, other than an issue that occurs in approximately 15% of all men.
I’m a little lighter in the wallet, but I’m fuller in confidence that my health is still relatively great. And that’s priceless.
What do you think? Is it nice to know what the healthcare system is like in another country?
Thanks for reading.
P.S. If you’re interested in becoming financially independent, which could allow you to retire abroad, check out some fantastic resources that I personally used to become financially free at 33!
Hi Jason,
Really sorry to hear you’re in pain, never good news. Just be thankful you weren’t in the USA, you’d probably have been trapped in high deductible lockdown by now like I was.
I’m also glad to be out of the insecurity of the US system and into a public one. Like your Thailand experience I’ve had nothing but positive, time efficient experiences with the NHS here despite all the complaining that get’s done in the media about it being broken. I also have no issue sitting in a queue for a few hours at peak times if they have a rush on and need me to wait my turn.
On a side note, a couple of weeks ago sat in the park the North West Air Ambulance touched down their Eurocopter on the grass right next to me, very cool to watch but had no idea it was a registered charity. Just shows how the rest of the world finds ways to figure it out, not necessary to go hitting people with a huge medevac bill in their hour of need.
Regards,
DN
DN,
Thanks. The ache is no fun, but I always try to keep perspective. Could be a lot worse. I guess I was just slightly concerned that there was a (small) chance that I had something else going on. Made sense to go down that rabbit hole. Knowing how cheap, fast, and easy it is, it’s not that big of a deal to go down that hole and chase something down for a few minutes. I feel a lot better about it now. 🙂
Yeah, the US system is a total nightmare. Living in the US is obviously not on my radar, but dramatically fixing/improving the healthcare system would definitely make it a more reasonable and appealing place to live. I don’t see that happening any time soon, though.
Cheers!
Hi Jason,
Thanks for sharing your story. It looks like laparoscopic surgery would address the issue, if there is a doctor who has done a lot of cases. Given that walk around so much and are so active with weightlifting, it is likely that this is adding more pressure to the area so to get the relief from discomfort it may be worth it to explore getting this done.
Glad to hear that you have no other detected issues in the abdomen or surrounding organs.
It’s wonderful how inexpensive and efficient the Thai medical system is- it really makes for a better retirement experience.
Stay well!
-Mike
Mike,
I’ve looked into surgery. Pros and cons. And a lot of guys have reported a return of the issue. I’ll probably just continue to monitor it. My main purpose with going back in was to make sure I didn’t have something else going on. Although the flank pain developed at the same time as the varicocele, I figured it was worthwhile to rule out something else.
I do agree with you on the Thai medical system. The lifestyle is so much better with that in your corner. 🙂
Best regards.
Jason,
Sorry to hear about your health issue. Like Mike said, it could be due to the heavy workouts and walks you do almost every day. May be tissues/muscles got stretched. You’ve mentioned that you get pain when you stand and off when sitting, that’s why I thought about it. Taking rest for few days could be a solution..
Most of the health problems can be resolved by healthy life-style and good habits. You have been living a wonderful & stress free life there. So, everything will be fine. Be positive!
By the way, you should consider reduce your coke intake. I think you drink coke for almost every day. I noticed this from your restaurants pictures. It may cause a problem for some people (even though I am a KO shareholder as well : ).
Best Regards,
FJ,
The pain is on when standing because of the varicocele. It causes excess sagging and weight. When I sit, that reduces the sagging and thus the ache from said sagging. I didn’t want to explain that (because I thought it was self-explanatory), but I guess you asked for it. 🙂
I noted in the article (and you’re free to look into it) this occurs in 15% or so (some estimates peg it as high as 20%) in men. It’s not something where only guys who walk or exercise get it, nor do I feel more pain when working out or less pain when not working out. It’s generally faulty valves in the scrotal veins. Not every health issue is related to something someone did or does. Walking doesn’t suddenly make your valves faulty. I didn’t think I’d have to explain all of this, but here you go.
As for drinking soda, I’m not aware of any correlation between soda and a varicocele. But maybe you could reference some scientific journals or research papers on that?
Cheers!
Hi Jason,
I had the same health issue (left varicocele) a few years ago. The problem is that varicoceles tend to grow over the years, with increasing pain and decreasing fertility. Therefore, I underwent surgery, which was no big deal, and it immediately stopped the pain.
Please think about the surgery. The risks are very low in my opinion. I had to stay in hospital only for two days.
Best regards,
Chris
Chris,
Thanks for sharing that. I appreciate your perspective.
I’m kind of mixed on the surgery idea. I’m always against it, unless it’s something very serious and surgery is absolutely necessary. Thus far, I’ve run across a lot of stories where the condition returned. Of course, I doubt many guys are coming back to talk about their success, so it seems one-sided and biased. That all said, neither urologist endorsed surgery, unless I felt like I couldn’t deal with the pain.
Cheers!
Jason,
Thanks for sharing this interesting perspective on healthcare in Thailand. I’ve also had a health experience in Thailand and it was very easy and inexpensive.
I’ve had varicocele pain on and off for about 20 years. In the early years, I remember constantly thinking about the pain which made it worse. Now that you’re clear, that should help with the mental side of things.
Sitting at an office desk increased it for me too. I met with a doc back then, had the ultrasound, and was also sent on my way with no additional problems.
A few things that have helped me when the pain is bad… tighter underwear, less sitting, and less you-know-what (just when the pain is bad! but then sometimes it can help too, weird). Ice and ibuprofen can also help during flair ups. Hot humid weather definitely plays a role too. Your pain would not be as bad in a cold Michigan Winter!
Achy Testes
Achy,
Thanks for the suggestions. I agree with all of that. Sitting is a lot better than standing for me, but laying down is obviously the best.
I do notice less pain with tighter underwear. It’s weird because the urologist talked about excess heat and lack of circulation as being issues, but the extra support seems to offset those drawbacks. So I’m on board with it. And, yeah, I hear you on the humid weather. Probably not the best, although I was in Florida before coming here (not exactly a cool place).
Thanks again!
Best wishes.
Hi Jason
sorry to hear again about the health issue you are having. I agree surgery does carry risk and it still might not fix the problem. I hope it doesn’t come to surgery but if it does I wish the best for you. I am not sure what treatments the doctor has recommended for you, I hope it fixes the problem. I wish you a speedy recovery in getting over this health problem soon. Thanks again for sharing the health care you are receiving over in Thailand , its a eye opener in the cost differences. Also sounds like they have been very professional which I think is great and brings better care for the Patient.
Cheer
Anonymous,
Hey, I’m happy to share the experience. Not really something I want to broadcast to the world, but I felt like I’d be remiss to keep it all to myself. And I’ve always tried to be pretty transparent with everything, for better or worse.
The doctor didn’t recommend any treatment outside of ibuprofen for swelling and pain reduction. Neither urologist recommended surgery due to the risks not seemingly worth the reward – and that’s before factoring in the issue returning. I suppose if the pain just goes on like this forever (or gets worse), I may have to revisit that.
Cheers!
Sorry to hear about your pain, but thanks for sharing your experience with healthcare. It sounds pretty good. Thailand is looking more and more attractive. Best wishes.
Joe,
Thanks, man!
Yeah, it’s not great to go through all of this, but at least it gave me an opportunity to share what the healthcare system is like over here. Glass is half full for sure. 🙂
Best wishes!
It’s too bad they couldn’t fix the pain, but it is good that you were able to confirm it isn’t a more serious problem.
I’ll be in Chiang Mai for 2 1/2 months this fall to test it out as a semi-retirement location. I plan to get some dental work done while I’m there. Seeing how cheap and efficient the medical system is there I might get some medical issues looked at as well.
Andy,
For sure. It could be a lot worse.
That’s awesome that you’re checking out CM. Hope you enjoy it!!
Cheers.
Thanks for sharing your story Jason, I imagine the discomfort of having this pain that might be affecting your quality of life. I hope you get better and learn how to deal with it. I use to have recurrent stone forming in my kidneys and is no fun. I know your situation is different and probably with medication at least you can alleviate the pain. At least I can see the cost of medical services is fair compared to the US. Here in Florida an ultrasound in the lower abdomen area runs at around $150. Take care of yourself my friend. Omar
Omar,
It’s more of an annoyance and distraction than anything else. A little ibuprofen goes a long way, but I’d rather not take something if I don’t have to.
The healthcare situation is definitely way better. I’ve spend less than $150 this year on medical/healthcare. I’d be out something like $5,000 by now if I were still living in the US. I’m very happy. 🙂
Cheers!
I have had a varicocele since I was a child. It has been explained to me that it is like having a varicose vein in the scrotum. Some say the heat from the extra blood flow can decrease sperm quality and sperm count. But it didn’t stop me from having 2 healthy children. I am 57 and still having healthy children with the varicocele. I am a private donor and aside from my 2 children, I have helped 13 women have 14 children. A cute healthy boy was born June 15th and another boy is due in November. Now and then the varicocele causes me pain for a few weeks at a time. My urologist said he could do a small procedure where they put me to sleep in the hospital, make a small incision in the abdomen, isolate the blood vessel that leads to the varicocele and tie it off. With no blood flow the varicocele would more or less shrivel up and shrink away. I may or may not have it done in the future.
By any chance, would you know anything about dental treatment (dental tourism) in Thailand? I need all my upper and lower teeth replaced, preferably with bone grafts, implants, and fixed bridges. Here in the U.S. it would run me about $35,000. I read in Thailand it runs about $16,000 and that there are excellent clinics Bangkok, Phuket, and Chiang Mai.
Steven,
Thanks for sharing!
I suppose if I wanted children, this would be a bigger issue for me. As it sits, it’s just more of a dull ache that kind of comes and goes a bit. I had another reader email me to tell me that he did the surgery, which required a four-inch incision in the abdomen. That’s more invasive than I’d like to get into. But if the pain were to be something really bothersome, I might look into it.
Can’t really say much about the dental, other than my research indicating it’s significantly less expensive than the US (which shouldn’t be a surprise). A reader from Texas is here in CM right now. We met up for lunch one day. He told me he got his teeth cleaned and was really impressed with the service, speed, and cost. But I don’t recall him saying exactly how much it was. I’ll make sure to share any experiences in that realm when they come up. 🙂
Best regards.
This is in reply to Steven and the dental question.
My own experience as a professional traveler for nearly 30 years, is that just about any place will be less expensive than the USA. Much less expensive! For instance, when I taught in Istanbul and needed a tooth extraction and bridge, the cost would have been over $2000 in the USA. My colleagues recommended the Istanbul Clinic, and it cost $120 from a dentist who spoke fluent English.
Now that I am semi-retired, most of my friends go to Yuma, Arizona and walk across the border for work in Mexico for about a third or less than US fees. I rarely hear of any complaints although due diligence is needed. I could go over other examples as well for my wife. All have been positive. Never had any work done in Thailand, but assume it would be excellent at very low costs.
One thing I find really annoying in the US is that they never give you the results as a PDF or a printed pack. Instead we get “well, in looking at your results, I see definite improvement and would say that all is well. Come back if the xyz returns”.
I’m a data nerd. I want to know where my cholesterol values were and are, same with any other values there may be.
Rob,
Yeah, I didn’t think about that. I’ve never really had anything major (and never had an ultrasound done in the US), so I guess it’s not something I’ve ever run into. But it’s nice to have my report to refer back to, and I can use that for future reference if there’s ever anything I need looked at again.
Cheers!
Good news to hear my friend. At least you know there is nothing seriously wrong. Hopefully the problem will disappear soon enough and you can return to normal life. Cheers
BHL,
Appreciate that. It’s not something that will disappear on its own, but it could be much, much worse.
Cheers!
Hi Jason,
My wife and I went plant based with no meat , no dairy, no processed foods/no oils, no smoking, switched to tea, little to no drinking —– things that tend to cause inflammation we eliminated in favor of( carbs—-rice, corn, beans, whole wheat pasta, potatoes, vegetables, fruits, etc….). I am 54 now and dropped 30+ lbs . I’m on no meds. I spin cycle and play hockey here in Florida. Many of the Docs in the documentary Forks over Knives advocate plant based. I did it as an experiment for a month or two and 7 years later ago I am still going strong. Planted based cleared up a lot of my issues I was having. Thought I would mention it! All the best , John
John,
Hey, that’s great. Glad it’s working out for you. 🙂
However, I couldn’t be less interested in something like that, nor is one’s consumption (or non-consumption) of meat at all related to a faulty vein in a valve. That said, I’m grateful for people who don’t eat meat. Keeps demand and prices lower for people like me.
Cheers!
Hi Jason, sorry to hear about your health issue, but thanks for providing info on the healthcare over there. It’s great to read a first-hand account. I early-retired in the US, and as you know healthcare costs are one of my biggest concerns. I pay $20k a year in insurance premiums for poor benefits and still pay many out of pocket costs. Since retiring, I’ve had an appendectomy, dislocated fingers from basketball, a colonoscopy, and other fairly minor procedures. The total charges for the outpatient appendectomy (about 20-30 minutes of laproscopic surgery time) were about $70,000 before insurance negotiated rates which knocked the cost down to less than $10,000 of which I paid around $2,000 out of pocket. I wouldn’t be surprised if the same procedure in CM cost less than my out of pocket cost.A year later I had an abscess lanced by a physician’s assistant during an office visit which incredibly also cost $2000 out of pocket. That’s the mysterious world of US healthcare which you have smartly avoided…
Ty,
Man, I’m really sorry to hear about all of the health troubles. I always try to keep perspective, but your experiences reinforce my thoughts about how relatively lucky I am. Really terrible stuff. Hope you’re at the end of those problems.
Yeah, the US healthcare system is a real mess. It’s unlikely I’d move back to the US anyway, but it’s pretty much at a 0% probability if the healthcare system stays on its current trajectory. It would just bother me to participate in something like that.
Thanks for sharing!
Best wishes.
Hi Jason,
It could be due to excessive weight exercise you could have taken. You may want to consider reducing the workload to see whether this could be the cause.
Ben
Ben,
Thanks for the suggestion, but the exercise is neither excessive nor causing the vericocele. I talked to both urologists to confirm that (after doing my own research online). They concurred. You don’t do arm curls or leg extensions and suddenly cause a faulty valve in a vein. That’s not how the body works. If that was how it works, no man would be exercising.
Cheers!