As a noted introvert and proud homebody, leading a quiet and introspective life has come quite natural to me.
And I’d say that’s a lifestyle that is somewhat easy to slide into when living in the US, especially for someone who has long embraced a life path that is so radically different than what most Americans would choose for themselves.
However, I’ve found that I’ve become significantly less introverted (and thus more extroverted) since moving abroad to become a dividend expat.
In fact, a neighbor of mine here in Chiang Mai, after having read my description of myself at the top right of the blog, insisted that she didn’t see me as an introvert at all. This came as a shock to me, as few people would have ever argued that point when I was living in the US.
But after some thoughtful reflection, I realized that she was right. I’m less introverted than I used to be.
I have a greater social network than I ever did in the States. I’m getting out of the house way more than ever before. And I find myself constantly busy, with a schedule that’s totally filled with events, meetups, dates, and gatherings.
And I believe this is for a few key reasons.
Greater Concentration Of Like-Minded People In A Small Area
My decision to permanently relocate overseas was only partially driven by the value prospects. While spending less and/or getting more value for my money is something that’s intuitively appealing to me, I would say that the low cost of living here in Chiang Mai is really only part of the puzzle.
A major benefit of living here is actually the strong concentration of like-minded people in such a small geographical footprint.
What do I mean by like-minded?
Well, this city is a bit of a hotbed – a mecca, if you will – for young people who are also building/running online businesses as digital nomads/entrepreneurs and seeking out passive income/freedom, eschewing a more typical lifestyle in the process.
As such, it’s easy to meet people who have something in common, as one doesn’t just accidentally end up in a place like Chiang Mai, Thailand. You don’t take a left when you should have taken a right and then find yourself here by accident. That’s not what happens. It’s most often a purposeful decision to come and stay for a while.
Whereas in the States, one feels like an outcast when they deliberately live radically in order to chase after a more free and meaningful life, one instead feels like they’re part of a family here. Instead of quizzical looks when they discuss what they’re up to, one receives nods of understanding, excitement, and approval.
Now, I live by my own inner scorecard in life. I don’t need others to agree with me. I have long known that what I’m doing is right for me. However, that doesn’t mean that it doesn’t feel good to be around people who share a common vision.
As an introvert, it takes energy out of me to open myself up to people and seek out social interactions. But I’ve found that it takes less energy to do so here, because I’m no longer fighting through the thick fog of opposite viewpoints in order to find a diamond in the rough.
Plus, once you do find like-minded people with which to spend time with, the odds are pretty good they’ll have some time to actually meet up and do things, which is much different from what I’ve found in the States (because everyone is working so much). It’s not uncommon to casually hang out on a Wednesday evening here in Chiang Mai.
It’s Cheaper To Go Out
No matter what your idea of “fun” is, it’s going to be cheaper over here. Actually, it’s probably going to be a lot cheaper.
I’ve been open about living extremely frugally, noting some of the lifestyle changes I had to make in order to save and invest as much as possible so as to become financially independent as soon as possible.
One of those changes involved going out less.
That meant far less frequenting of almost all social establishments (restaurants, music venues, coffee shops, etc.), as they very often cost money. Couple that with a dearth of like-minded people with which to enjoy these establishments, and it was pretty easy for me to almost completely avoid them.
However, with a greater social network comes a desire/responsibility to enjoy these establishments more often.
While I still spend time at home, I find myself engaging in activities like, say, eating out of the house, bowling, and watching live music far more often than I ever did in the States. In fact, I find myself doing this stuff more now than when I was much younger – way before I started to chase after financial freedom.
But this is largely possible because of the much lower cost structure.
Eating at a local market can run someone as little as $1 per meal. Even Western food (like, say, burgers) is usually materially cheaper here compared to what I’ve experienced in the US.
I’m not a big drinker (I rarely drink), but I’ve noticed how much cheaper it is to grab a drink with friends here. I was at a swanky rooftop bar not too long ago. You could get tapas for a few bucks. Even fancy cocktails were running about $4 each. And this is at one of the nicest places in town.
My girlfriend and I went to a bowling event with about 15 other people not too long ago. We were there for over two hours. We bowled multiple games. We rented two pairs of shoes. The grand total was around $10.
I spend a lot of time with a great friend of mine from Australia. He and I have visited a local jazz bar a couple times. It’s free to go. No cover charge. Drinks are a couple dollars. A few hours slip by, you have a great time, and you go home a couple dollars lighter.
So on and so forth.
When you don’t have to worry about breaking the bank, you find yourself getting out of the house a lot more. And you’re not stressed when you’re doing it, opening yourself up to having a much more enjoyable time.
Apartments Tend To Be Smaller
My apartment is a bit over 400 square feet. That might sound small, but it actually feels a lot bigger. And regardless of how much money I might eventually end up with, I personally prefer a smaller space that fits in well with my inner minimalist. I will never buy/own a home. And I’ll likely never again live in a place that offers more than ~400 square feet per person.
Nonetheless, having such a small space encourages one to get out and explore the world. I don’t mind this at all.
The United States has this trend where people build and love big spaces. Be it an apartment or a house, bigger is thought to be better. Of course, when one is working way too much, and when going out is so expensive, it makes sense to have a personal space that allows one to spread out and relax.
But I don’t have a job anymore. And getting out of the house is now enjoyable and cheap.
So when you’re able to totally change that typical work-spend-work dynamic, smaller is actually better.
Plus, cheaper and smaller apartments over here free up a lot of capital for other areas of spending. And when you find that going out is also a lot cheaper, you just end up in this zone where you feel so happy and free to do anything, be anyone, and go anywhere.
Conclusion
Being a dividend expat is like living in a dream where you’re making all the rules.
And you find out who you really are. When money no longer becomes a motivating/deciding factor behind decisions, you learn a lot about yourself. You end up living a truly authentic life that reflects who you are inside. It’s a wonderful exploration and evolution process.
What I’ve personally found through this experience is that I’m a bit less introverted than I always believed I was.
I’ve noted before that my career made me more cynical and introverted than I ordinarily am. But what I never realized was that living in the United States also made me more cynical and introverted than I actually am.
I still enjoy my cozy time at home. I still get that feeling of relief when I come home after a long day.
But I no longer live a life that is almost completely bound by the walls of my personal space, which has totally redefined my definition of “personal space”. Personal space is, for me, now an entire world. That’s freeing and exciting in a way that’s hard to put into words.
What do you think? Have lifestyle changes you’ve experienced made you more or less introverted?
Thanks for reading.
Image courtesy of: Sira Anamwong at FreeDigitalPhotos.net.
P.S. If you’re interested in becoming a dividend expat, or if you’re interested in becoming financially independent at all, I’ve compiled some excellent resources that helped me build this amazing and free life. Check them out!
That’s quite an interesting change of mind. Having read your older posts from Dividend Mantra, your point always seemed to be that frugality is not just about saving money but that it is a better way of life: cooking at home instead of eating at a restaurant is healthier, doing “free” leisure activities instead of “artificial” fun like bowling or cinema is more fun, etc.
I completely understand your point that it makes a difference that these activities cost substantially less in Chiang Mai. But it puts into perspective the whole concept of frugality being an end in itself.
Teilzeitinvestor,
Thanks for dropping by!
Don’t get me wrong. I’m still very living frugally in absolute terms, and I still enjoy many aspects of my lifestyle that would be far more extreme than most people would ever come anywhere close to. But frugality, like almost everything else, exists along a spectrum. It’s not totally frugal versus not frugal at all. I simply try to align my spending with quality of life, happiness, and value. This naturally tends to lean toward frugality. And I always stated that the all-encompassing extreme frugality tactics that I employed early on were not something I saw as sustainable, or even particularly enjoyable, for the rest of my life:
http://www.dividendmantra.com/2014/09/using-extreme-frugality-in-the-beginning-to-get-things-rolling/
But I don’t think there’s anything “artificial” about going bowling or hanging out with friends. If these things were free, or near-free, in the States, I would have probably made mostly the same choices. And that’s because, as I pointed out in the article (and maybe you missed this), not all of this is just about the money.
Too many people focus only on the money stuff. That, in my view, is a tragic mistake. But to each their own. 🙂
P.S. Eating at home versus going out to eat has a totally different dynamic over here. Eating out every day has allowed me to become healthier and happier than ever. Again, it’s just not all about the money:
https://www.mrfreeat33.com/how-i-accidentally-lost-five-pounds-in-one-month-by-moving-to-thailand/
Cheers!
Thanks for your reply. Dont get me wrong, I didn’t want to question your sincerity or integrity. I just found it remarkable (and totally understandable) that you enjoy being relatively rich in your new environment and adjust your lifestyle accordingly. I went to Chiang Mai last year myself as part of a three-week Thailand trip, and I completely understand what you like about the place. Was actually hoping to bump into you and say hello, but that would have had to be quite a coincidence 🙂
Hi Jason–
A link to a great post. Man, I can’t believe it’s been four years since you posted that. I first started following you during your return to Michigan, and I can’t believe how far you’ve come. It certainly doesn’t feel like it’s been four years, but at the same time it feels like a lifetime has changed in where you are–from $5500 in passive income to FIREd overseas!
I turned 31 earlier this year, and it’s awesome to know that getting free by 35 is possible. It’s really thanks to you and ERE Jacob that I know it’s even an option!
Thanks!
FreeInFIRE,
Thanks so much!
Yeah, that feels like a lifetime ago. I had high hopes for my return to Michigan. Didn’t turn out well at all. I had high hopes for Thailand. It’s turned out unbelievably well thus far. That’s life. Funny how things work out, though.
You’re still young. That’s such an advantage. 31 is an awesome time to be smashing the gas pedal and seeing what you can do in a very short period of time. That 35-year-old version of yourself will thank you. 🙂
Keep it up!!
Best regards.
love your perspective. I love going out, but living in South Florida, I always have to ask myself if I really want to go and whats an acceptable budget. If I lived in Thailand, I know i wont have to worry about that and just go out and enjoy life. That will soon be a reality for me.
I would like to see another expense report if you do not mind. I really enjoyed the one you did when you first moved to Thailand.
FV,
Right. It comes down to value and enjoyment. A jazz club, for instance, is great when it’s a couple bucks and you’re around awesome, like-minded people. Not so much when it’s $15 or $20 and you’re around people who are interested in very different things.
I plan to write another expense report at some point here. Just haven’t mustered up the enthusiasm for it yet. Not to spoil the surprise, but my spending is roughly the same. Living like a millionaire on about $1,200 per month. Life could be worse. 🙂
Best regards!
Interesting insights. I’ve had a couple similar experiences as well.
First, when I moved away and went to college, I was a lot more outgoing compared to my high school days. It was a fresh start and I was easily able to make a lot of friends at school/work since there were so many like-minded people around.
Second, one of my side businesses is an online travel agency and I go to two or three conferences/awards banquets a year. They are at all inclusive resorts, so I don’t have to worry about food costs. Most people there are running their own independent agencies, so they are like-minded as well. There is a wide age range that skews a couple decades older than me, but it’s easy to meet new people and enjoy some free meals together. While I enjoy going to my room and recharging for a while (especially if I have a nice hammock overlooking the ocean), I find myself actually interested in going back out and visiting with people after a short time.
I still wouldn’t consider myself extroverted and I’m not a fan of noisy places, but at least I know I can build a good social network when I’m around like-minded people. You have me really curious how I would do in Chiang Mai where it would be somewhat similar to the travel agent crowd, but most people would be closer to my age (35).
Also, thanks for mentioning your monthly spending in the comment above. I know you said these activities were cheap, but it’s nice to see a monthly total (and the breakdown, when you feel the urge to write one).
Travis,
That’s good stuff. Thanks for sharing your unique experiences.
I think a lot goes into it. I mean, we have our natural tendencies. But there’s also the environment we’re in. Whether or not that environment promotes activity, conversation, enjoyment, and serendipity will likely have some kind of impact on how you structure your life and spend your time, almost regardless of your personality type. It was easier for me to be introverted in the States. It’s currently less easy. I’ve done well in both circumstances, but I’m certainly enjoying the change of pace right now.
Best regards!
Good for you. I need to get out more myself.
FV,
Haha!
I was becoming a hermit in the States. I enjoy my homebody-ness. I like being at home. But there’s something to be said for balance. It was a very insulated and lonely life in the States. I now get my alone time when I want. And I have plenty of opportunities to meet up with like-minded people when the energy, enthusiasm, and availability all line up. 🙂
Cheers!
I do the social stuff. I certainly do less of it than most folks. As an introvert I was concerned that you weren’t getting enough alone time. But I see that you still thrive on it even though its less often than before. It seems that you’ve made a very smart move by relocating. I challenge you to list any downsides to it.
Fred,
Yeah, I still need that time alone to recuperate and get the energy stores back. You know how that goes.
The nice thing now is the balance. People in the States are usually not like-minded. And they’re busy all the time. Plus, everything is so expensive, providing poor value. It’s just not an environment that promotes laid-back social activities.
I’ll come up with downsides at some point. I think my list is going to be quite short, though. That’s partly because I don’t have many family ties due to my unique situation there (mom’s suicide, dad leaving when I was young, etc.). I think other people would find themselves missing people quite a bit if they were to relocate abroad. But it’s worked out the opposite way for me, as I now have a much larger circle of people I enjoy spending time with. 🙂
Best wishes.
That’s very interesting. Thanks for sharing. I think Americans are a lot more reserved. Most of us can take care of ourselves and we don’t need much help. In Thailand, people depend more on their neighbors and local network. It’s a more closed knit society.
It’s really difficult to make new friends here in Portland. We don’t even know our neighbor that well. In Thailand, people are more nosy and that’s expected.
You’re right about Americans being busy all the time too. Everyone is too busy to spend time with anyone else. It’s kind of nuts.
Joe,
Right. It’s just different. It’s not that one way is better than the other; it’s more or less a personal preference.
I can excel in the environment that is so pervasive in the US. I did it for years. But I find myself more engaged over here, enjoying the alternating dynamic in my free time a little more than the insulated lifestyle that I had in the States. To each their own. 🙂
Thanks for dropping by!
Best wishes.
Thanks Jason, for providing such inspirational information regarding your life in CM. I am slowly but surely gaining momentum from the snowball effect increasing dividends from $5 per month to $226. My question is a bit off topic in Ragards to CM. It is specifically Related to the HOMELESS population in CM. I live and own property in California and unfortunately over the last few years the homeless have literally taken over our cities, parks, beaches, libraries, etc. it has gotten so bad that now on our freeways we have electric signs that say drivers have to watch for people walking on the freeways and our speed limit is 65mph. Homeless people pitch tents and RV on the sidewalk in your neighborhood leaving trash, urine feces, and other debris and when you call the police or other authorities they tell us the Homeless have rights and they technically can’t tell them they can’t be on the sidewalk in front of your home but they can move their RV back and forth across the street in front of your property. But I have to pay taxes to clean the trash and debris that they leave. I am tired and frustrated and certainly tired of the U.S. and their views of things such as you are not allowed to say anything about the homeless, immigration, welfare, etc. but I am constantly paying more and more in taxes. I am clipping coupons saving and living a life of frugality but the others are getting welfare, section 8 housing , free food, free healthcare, and discounts on utilities and free phones. I am exhausted and frustrated.
I say that to say CM sounds amazing LOL
Thanks FON FON
FON FON,
Hey, I hear you. One reason (among many, really) I never moved to CA was due to, in my view, an outrageous state income tax rate. It’s a very expensive place to live. Combining that with pleasant year-round weather means it’s not a surprise to see homeless people.
That said, it’s a shame that the US – the wealthiest and most powerful country to ever exist – has so many homeless people in what are supposed to be world-class cities. I visited Portland, OR last year. The homeless were everywhere. It’s nuts.
It’s funny you bring this up. I was actually just talking to a friend of mine last night about the lack of homeless people here in CM. I’m sure they’re out there. I just never see any – even in poorer areas of town. It’s crazy that a country like Thailand has such a small (at least visibly) homeless population, along with free healthcare for its citizens. Yet the US can’t figure basic things out. It’s a shame.
The US can be a great place to live. Don’t get me wrong. But it’s just one country of many. It’s a big world out there.
Cheers!
Jason seems like you are having the time of your life. I agree changing your surrendings can lead someone to be more of an extrovert. When is the best time of year to visit Chaing Mai.
David,
Thanks. I’m incredibly blessed! 🙂
The best time of year would be late in the year. Around the holidays. The weather around Christmas is amazing. The air is clean. The only drawback around that time is that you’ll see a lot of tourists (because it’s a nice time to come). I may spend this Christmas on a Thai beach. That’s a great time to also see the islands.
Best regards.
Good article.
I’ve experienced this right here in the US. With my family or certain groups of coworkers and friends, I’m very quiet. With other groups of friends, I’m outgoing and funny. That’s even the case with certain groups of strangers I’ve just met. If I’m at a bar and I’m trying to get to know a group [of girls], it just ain’t happening. A smaller gathering of people somewhere else, and it’s like I’ve known these people all my life.
Maybe I’ve got to come out and live in Thailand. People there sound awesome. I’m typing this in my break room and I can hear the bank customers getting loud and obnoxious out there. Definitely a different class of people.
Sincerely,
ARB–Angry Retail Banker
ARB,
I hear you. It really does depend on the people. I sometimes feel like a turtle that wants to retreat to my shell. And then there are other times when I am so enthusiastic to talk with people, exchange ideas, and be social. A lot of that comes down to the group of people in question. Unfortunately, the US has a lot of people that make me feel like that turtle. It’s just a very rat-racey kind of place, for better or worse. That’s not necessarily a bad thing, but the people who are sucked up in that (which is most people) are obviously not my kind of people.
Cheers!
Hey Jason, I just got back from an expat haven in Mexico, and was so appreciative to have found this entry in your book of life (or should I say Book of Living). There are so many things I want to say having just experienced an environment that is similar to what you described in Chiang Mai, but I will save that for another time, and perhaps in person one day.
Visiting San Miguel de Allende, which is drawing expats that typically range from 50-80, of which I am on my first year (and not sure I want to be part of that group just yet being a younger 50), was really cool and interesting. I saw that being an expat in a less expensive environment with great weather, community, and more time due to not having a job, sure does seem to bring out the best in people – including more energy and enthusiasm for life. These guys are doing all kinds of fun stuff, and a lot of them are reliving their youth now that they are free, warm, feeling good, and obviously quite frisky (yes, in that way.
When I met you in Sarasota, I saw a couple of things in our (too) brief time together. First and foremost, I saw a man with a big heart who was looking for a place and people to share it with (but didn’t have it there). Second, I saw the introvert you have referenced, but based on your recent pictures and writings I believe has become the man on the outside that reflects the heart and soul I perceived to be on the inside.
Numbers, spreadsheets and the like are all great, but when it comes down to it, it is all about the love / friend / kinships we / I have in our life that create the rich tapestry for living, which I believe is a big distinction – having life vs living it (in my humble opinion of course). In truth, and since you shared it in an older blog post, I chalked a bunch of it up to your childhood / family history (nurture), and am sure that is a part of who you are (nature). I understand both parts completely, having done a lot of external and internal work. I am similar to you in that what was once an introvert has become more of an available, connected and active participant in the things / with the people around me. I, and I believe you, are (emotional) holocaust survivors, and I believe certain personality characteristics come with that. I walked away from our get together wishing you nothing but the ability to find that which would bring you great love and joy, and that is also part of why I have said in the past that I wished we were closer to each other in the US. I would have loved to share my resources with you, for I saw a lot of me, in you. One of my dearest friends, who you met, is 25 years my senior, and he has done that very thing for me.
I never would have dreamed it would be living in Thailand that would be the catalyst that would benefit you the most, but I am so happy you found it – kind of like when superman was exposed to a yellow sun. I don’t believe there are geographical fixes, for wherever you go, thats where you are, but in your change of geography, you achieved access to the things and people you needed to dive a little deeper and find the man inside I was referencing. I continue to be grateful that you are so transparent in your sharing of yourself, for more than finances, you are also sharing possibilities.
In the words of Joseph Campbell, you are on your Hero’s Journey. Like my friend who is significantly older, I love that I am learning and growing through the good works of a friend who is quite younger (that would be you). As your Aussie friend would probably say, good on ya.
Andrew,
Thanks so much for sharing. Great thoughts here. 🙂
SMDA seems super interesting from a number of angles. Most of the reasons one would want to go there are akin to why one would come over here. There’s certainly some older expats over here in Thailand (although less so in CM), but there’s just a massive and still-growing scene full of young entrepreneurs/digital nomads that adds a certain depth, character, and vibrancy to the place. So many different perspectives. Not all of these perspectives and people are great. But you have a much better shot at meeting someone like-minded over here, which is central to the point I’m making here in the article.
Really glad you appreciate the writing and sharing. I enjoy talking stocks, money, and investing. But all of that is just a means to an end. You have to build a life. An enjoyable, purposeful, and happy life. If you think your stocks are going to do that for you, you’re going to be sadly mistaken. And so everything I do and write about is toward that end. I just want to make sure I don’t one day find myself much older and full of regret. I want to look back and say I did it exactly as I should have – full of passion and life.
It’ll be great to see where you end up. I can see the appeal of Central and S America in terms of how close that area is to the US. If I had certain ties to the country, that would have been a consideration for me. But I wish you the best as you continue that journey and find the right spot to enjoy that next phase in your life.
Best regards!
Agreed Jason, SMA is really cool with regards to its artistic vibe, colonial history / architecture, incredibly consistent / beautiful weather, walkability, and proximity to the US (for those who need to be close to their original home). Mexico, while the #1 destination for expats right now, has some issues brewing. For SMA, they are receiving more people than the infrastructure can handle, which especially includes the increasingly wealthy Mexico City residents who are buying like crazy and pushing the prices quickly higher. There is still room to rent / own there at a reasonable price relative to the US though, and the natives are (mostly) welcoming and friendly. There is a water supply issue brewing, and one has to be aware of the crime / cartel activity in Mexico, although I don’t hear too much beyond home invasions being a major issue as long as you are smart and don’t pursue questionable activities.
I may have mentioned this previously, but I have a HUGE love of asian culture, and Thailand has always been my #1 target, which is why I was so excited when you moved there – I knew you would share some great insights. Many of the people I read about closer to my age who retire to Asia seemingly end up in Malaysia right now for the cost is low, access is easy, a lot of the Malays speak english, etc etc. As a young 50, being amongst mostly 60’s / 70’s / 80’s + doesn’t overly appeal to me, and I would like to be close to a younger vibe. I also am planning to move to more of a digital component of my business and let other people handle the physical. With that in mind, I truly desire to be closer to people who would be of like mind and skill sets as I continue to develop mine. Where will I ultimately end up? Great question. I may be a neighbor of yours in CM, a short flight away in Malaysia, or something that I am at this point in time not even aware is possible. The most important thing is that I am open to explore and experience. I love the prospect of adventure. After all, as you so eloquently write, said adventure is where the juice is as long as it is worth the squeeze. I guess everyone has to decide what ‘squeezes’ them best. I am working on finding mine, and have only just begun!